Home > Regular Features > Monday message board

Monday message board

February 20th, 2006

It’s time, once again for the Monday Message Board. As usual, civilised discussion and absolutely no coarse language, please.

Categories: Regular Features Tags:
  1. wilful
    February 20th, 2006 at 13:04 | #1

    So, John Howard is on a personal approval high, mostly for his economic record. Who woulda thunk it?

    Does he really deserve the economic accolades? Or ahs he been damned lucky and coasted along on the conditions he inherited?

  2. Andrew Reynolds
    February 20th, 2006 at 13:52 | #2

    wilful,
    He has not stuffed it up, so, in political terms, it is the same thing. Whitlam stuffed it up and Fraser did not improve it. Keating got it mostly right and then got it wrong with the recession we had to have. Howard has taken the bulk of the work that Keating did in micro-economic reform and not done a Whitlam with it.
    Good enough, overall.

  3. still working it out
    February 20th, 2006 at 14:18 | #3

    If we had another Keating today and he was trying to continue reform, what would he be doing right now?

  4. Andrew Reynolds
    February 20th, 2006 at 14:22 | #4

    Keating got a lot of it done, but (IMHO) balked at the GST and workplace reform as the opposition in the ALP was too strong. Does that answer your question?

  5. wilful
    February 20th, 2006 at 14:38 | #5

    tax reform, carbon taxes, IR reform, these could have been tackled by Keating I reckon.

  6. Katz
    February 20th, 2006 at 14:53 | #6

    If the ALP had won in 1996 then it would have constituted a powerful signal from the electorate that “deficits don’t matter”.

    However, Costello cornered Beazley into lying about the magnitude of the federal deficit and the national debt.

    Costello used the political momentum thus achieved to bring about some big cuts and tax reforms.

    If the ALP had won in 1996 the political imperative for these reforms would not have been as strong. (The Libs would have been reduced to a condition of more of less permanent opposition.)

    Thus I believe that it is aguable that Australia would not have a GST and there would have been mere tinkering with the accord process.

    For better or for worse, the Howard government has achieved some very important reforms that would have been unlikely under Labor.

  7. Bring Back EP qt LP
    February 20th, 2006 at 14:59 | #7

    Keating via EBA was the first to bring market place realities to the workplace.

    even funnier they actually had evidence to show it assisted in boosting productivity

  8. February 20th, 2006 at 15:00 | #8

    Anyone who even suggests that Keating was anything but a total disaster is so out of touch with reality that it beggars belief.

    For Australia’s sake it is just as well the people got rid of him when they did.

  9. Bring Back EP qt LP
    February 20th, 2006 at 15:17 | #9

    I love that wonderful evidence to prove your point Steve .

    I didn’t like his period as PM but when I examined it it wasn’t so bad.

    in 1996 inflation was licked, we had the longest economic recovery sine ww2 ( since extended), introduction of decentralised wage bargaining and as for Foreign policy It took Howard eight years to copy it and claim it as his own.

    I had to realise than I had put my dislike of the man ahead of what really happened.

    I remember Lord Paddy of Balmain becoming dyslexic when asked to comment on the failures of keating! He has never got over his hatred of Keating and it always shows.

  10. wilful
    February 20th, 2006 at 15:20 | #10

    Steve, care to summarise? I men, you know, give some testable statements, like…

  11. wilful
    February 20th, 2006 at 15:21 | #11

    BTW, The Science of Climate Change, a research report from the NSW Parliamentary Library, has just been released. Any comments, anyone?

  12. Andrew Reynolds
    February 20th, 2006 at 15:59 | #12

    SATP,
    I would agree that he was a disaster as PM, but during his first term as treasurer he did several things the JH did not do but should have. He was more to the liberal side of politics than the Liberals had been.

  13. brian
    February 20th, 2006 at 16:27 | #13

    It’s interesting the extent of the debt of so many in the McMansions in the suburbs..I-child families in houses with 4 en-suite bedrooms..WOW.. what a recipe for disaster when the economic tide turns ! small rise in interest rates will set the whole economic situation tumbling for many. Perhaps by then Howard will be gone and Costello and Vaile will inheret the wind !!!

  14. David Michie
    February 20th, 2006 at 17:49 | #14

    If there’s a global over supply of steel, and Chinese steel producers have their margins cut to the bone, why is the price of coking coal and iron ore continuing to rise?

  15. still working it out
    February 20th, 2006 at 19:59 | #15

    Andrew Reynolds,

    It does, but it seems that means that there is not much left to do. Once IR is finished with there does not seem to be anything left to do. Does that mean we are soon going to have an ideal economic policy?

  16. Andrew Reynolds
    February 20th, 2006 at 20:07 | #16

    The End of History Cometh! Francis Fukuyama was right!
    .
    Hardly. The minimum wage will still exists, freedom of contract is still infringed, tax reform has barely begun, whole departments are awaiting the chop and I am not yet PM. There is much to do, grasshopper.

  17. Terje Petersen
    February 20th, 2006 at 22:15 | #17

    Keating has said publicly that Telstra should be privatised. So I suppose he would be privatising Telstra.

  18. Mark U
    February 20th, 2006 at 22:35 | #18

    Keating pushed for a GST at the 1985 tax summit but was shafted by Hawke and the Business Council.

  19. February 20th, 2006 at 22:47 | #19

    Without the presence of PCs in most offices the introduction of GST would have sent most SMEs round the twist – as did VAT in the UK in the 70s when the only saving grace was that calculators were suddenly relatively inexpensive.

    That is one reason why the delay with GST was no bad thing.

  20. February 21st, 2006 at 00:05 | #20

    Ugly Dave: Are you suggesting that there is someone somewhere who was NOT sent around the twist by the introduction of the GST?

    The pain of introducing it was so great, that 3 days after it was introduced, I vowed to kill Kim Beasley myself if he ever tried to roll it back.

  21. Terje Petersen
    February 21st, 2006 at 01:42 | #21

    I saw John Quggin on the TV tonight discussing PPPs. On TV he looks a lot thinner than his photo on this website would suggest.

  22. wilful
    February 21st, 2006 at 09:01 | #22

    It’s the stress of keeping this lot in control.

  23. Andrew Reynolds
    February 21st, 2006 at 09:50 | #23

    Whatever we think of David Irving, to me at least there is no way he should have been jailed for 3 years. Ridiculed, pointed out as wrong etc. etc. etc. but not jailed.

  24. Bring Back EP at LP
    February 21st, 2006 at 09:58 | #24

    A voltaire situation I believe

  25. February 21st, 2006 at 11:39 | #25

    Andrew Reynolds Says: February 20th, 2006 at 8:07 pm The End of History Cometh! Francis Fukuyama was right! Hardly.

    Like everyone else you seem to not have understood Fukyama’s thesis. Read the book, before (like other critics) using the title of the book to suggest or refer to things/events etc to which it didn’t ever mean to apply.

  26. Andrew Reynolds
    February 21st, 2006 at 12:12 | #26

    WBW,
    Perhaps the satire of the rest passed you by.

  27. fatfingers
    February 21st, 2006 at 12:45 | #27

    I also saw the Prof on the telly, and it was a shock (having never heard him speak before) to see this great big bear of a man with a beard the size of the Telegraph talk in a squeaky, high-pitched voice. I mean no offence, John. It just gave me a giggle. :-)

    Back to intelligent policy discussion: the upcoming edition of Dialogue from ASSA has an interesting article on wages policy (I forget who by). It has some intriguing bits on why unemployment rates differ between US and Europe (the US imprisons a lot of its unemployed is one claim) and why the pursuit of a low-wages policy by the current government is not a good idea. I hope you blog about that article when you read it, because I’m actually more interested in your ideas than what you sound like.

  28. Paul Kelly at News Ltd
    February 21st, 2006 at 15:31 | #28

    Irving is like those kiddies who try to smuggle drugs through Asia. He knew it was against the law to do what he did in Austria, but he went ahead and did it anyway.

    Hah! No sympathy from me.

  29. Katz
    February 21st, 2006 at 15:52 | #29

    If further confirmation were needed to demonstrate the dire condition of the US military bogged down in the Middle East quagmire, just released is a study commissioned by the Pentagon:

    http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=EDARMY-02-20-06

    The take-home message:

    The report notes: “that coming out of Vietnam, military leaders were determined never again to get bogged down in prolonged small-unit combat. If the Army must fight, it would hit with overwhelming force, achieve its objectives and get out. The need to behave that way was reinforced by the end of the draft late in the Vietnam War. U.S. military forces now needed to focus on their ability to attract new recruits and retain experienced personnel.

    “That doctrine dictated how the Army was organized for Afghanistan and Iraq. It was totally unprepared to cope with extended battles against insurgencies; the Bush administration’s strategy didn’t take them into account.

    “Thus the Army finds itself just where it was in Vietnam, and without a draft. Its near-term future looks bleak, thanks to the flawed vision of Rumsfeld and Bush.”

    Try as hard as they might, they just can’t get away from the “V” word.

    Funny, that.

  30. Katz
    February 21st, 2006 at 21:34 | #30

    Meanwhile, in Iraq things just get weirder.

    Here’s US ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad lecturing no doubt highly bemused Iraqi politicians:

    “American taxpayers expect their money to be spent properly. We are not going to invest the resources of the American people into forces run by people who are sectarian,”

    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article346735.ece

    Which raises at least two questions:

    1. If the Bush Clique doesn’t spend the money it borrowed on the democratically elected government of Iraq, what are they going to spend it on in Iraq?

    2. Whom do the Bush Clique expect to rush forward to grasp Ambassador Khalilzad by the knees and cry, “We won’t be sectarian any more. Please don’t take your money away. Please don’t go go home. We need you!”

  31. avaroo
    February 23rd, 2006 at 14:21 | #31

    “(the US imprisons a lot of its unemployed is one claim)”

    Unpopular as unemployment is in the US, I’m pretty sure that it isn’t punishable by imprisonment. Thanks for the laugh.

  32. james
    April 22nd, 2006 at 14:18 | #32

    We are mobile phones wholesalers,we have all brands and models Games and xbox 360 for sale at very cheap prices.We also have all models Xbox 360 for sale also at very cheap prices.We sell our Games and xbox 360 at very cheap and reasonable prices.We do ship all over the world.Do kindly contact us on our email: [email protected]
    Telephone:+2348029947561
    if you are interested in buying some Games/Xbox 360 from us,thank’s and God bless.
    below are some Games/Electronic prices,do check them out and let me know what you think about them:
    playmakers limited is the home of all entertainment and one of the largest salers of playstation here in west africa, we specialized in home entertainment such as psp’s,apple ipods and xbox 360 only. our price is cheap and and affordable,we also shipp and welcome buyers all around the world. please do contact us if you need any of these product.
    Bellow are the price list in our stock.

    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Blue M9802LL/A………………….$100usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Pink M9804LL/A………………….$120usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Green M9806LL/A…………………$110usd
    Apple 6 GB iPod Mini Blue M9803LL/A………………….$120usd
    Apple 6 GB iPod Mini Silver M9801LL/A………………..$110usd
    Apple 20 GB iPod M9282LL/A………………………….$150usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Pink M9435LL/A………………….$120usd
    Apple 40 GB iPod photo……………………………..$120usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Silver M9160LL/A………………..$110usd
    Apple 60 GB iPod Photo M9830LL/A…………………….$200usd
    Apple 60 GB iPod photo……………………………..$140usd
    Apple 30 GB iPod Photo M9829LL/A…………………….$180usd
    Apple 512 MB iPod Shuffle MP3 Player M9724LL/A………..$260usd
    Apple iPod 1GB Shuffle……………………………..$220usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Blue M9436LL/A………………….$100usd
    Apple 20 GB iPod U2 Special Edition………………….$120usd
    Apple 6 GB iPod Mini Green M9807LL/A…………………$130usd
    Apple Ipod Nano 2GB………………………………..$130usd
    Apple Ipod Nano 4GB………………………………..$180usd
    Apple Ipod video 30GB………………………………$230usd
    Apple Ipod video 60GB………………………………$300usd
    Microsoft Xbox 360 Platinum System cost………………$350usd
    Playstation 3……………………………………..$220usd
    Playstation 2……………………………………..$75usd
    Sony PSP “Super Value Pack” – 3 Game
    UMD Sampler Pack…………………. ………………$200usd
    Sony PSP Super Value Pack w/2 Games,
    Spider Man Movie, UMD Sampler……………………….$140usd
    Sony PSP – 3 Games, Spider Man Movie…………………$250usd
    Sony “PSP Tony Hawk’s Underground 2 Remix ValuePack……$190usd
    Sony PSP “Sports Value Pack” – 2 Games,
    UMD Sampler Pack…………………………………..$150usd
    Sony PSP “Value Pack” – 1 Racing Game,
    UMD Sampler ………………………………………$230usd
    Sony PSP Limited Edition(White) 20 Games+Car Kit Etc…..$250usd
    Sony PSP “Super Pack” – 5 Games With ExtraAccessories….$170usd
    Sony PSP “Limited Edition” Ceramic White …………….$180usd
    .Sony Psp “metal Gear Value Pack” – 2 Games,
    Umd Sampler pack.””$160.00
    Sony PSP \”Value Pack\” – NBA Basketball Game,
    UMD Sampler pack…………………………………..$100usd
    play station 1…………………………………….$120usd
    play station 2 ……………………………………$200usd
    play station 3…………………………………….$250usd
    XBOX:
    Microsoft Xbox 360 Platinum System cost………………$850usd
    Microsoft Xbox 360 Core System………………………$850usd
    Microsoft Xbox 360 System Bundle…………………….$850usd
    Xbox 360 Customer Choice Bundle with Hard Drive……….$780usd
    Xbox 360 Live Bundle……………………………….$520usd
    Xbox 360 Core Bundle……………………………….$600usd
    Xbox 360 Core System Bundle…………………………$900usd
    x_box 360…………………………………………$400usd
    GARMIN 396………………………………………..$250uds
    Game boy latext edition…………………………….$110usd
    this games are brand new sealed in black company Box.
    Apple 20 GB iPod ………………………………….$130usd
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Pink M9435LL/A …………………$150usd
    Apple 40 GB iPod photo……………………………..$200USD
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Silver M9160LL/A ……………….$180USD
    Apple 60 GB iPod Photo M9830LL/A…………………….$170USD
    Apple 60 GB iPod photo …………………………….$170USD
    Apple 30 GB iPod Photo M9829LL/A…………………….$140USD
    Apple 512 MB iPod Shuffle MP3 Player…………………$160USD
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Blue M9436LL/A………………….$180USD
    Apple 2 GB iPod Nano……………………………….$150USD
    Apple 4 GB iPod Nano……………………………….$170USD
    Apple 30 GB iPod Vidoe……………………………..$170USD
    Apple 60 GB iPod Vidoe……………………………..$220USD
    MP3 WACH FOR JUST………………………………….$200USD

    Do kindly reply back now,thank’s and God bless.
    All our product are well packed and sealed for security reasons…
    And models of mobile phones.All electronics and mobile phones comes
    in its original sealed box direct from the factory.
    All electronics and mobile phones price are negotiable if buying in
    bulk quantity.
    Hope to hear from you as soon as possible with your private phone
    number for easy communication
    Delivery Time:
    We deliver the products been purchased directly to your doorstep 2-3
    Email: [email protected]
    Telephone:+2348029947561

    Thanks
    James Brown

Comments are closed.