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Monday message board

September 18th, 2006

It’s time, once again for the Monday Message Board. As usual, civilised discussion and absolutely no coarse language, please.

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  1. taust
    September 18th, 2006 at 13:28 | #1

    Does anyone know where one can get data on the number of children killed by the application of UN sanctions prior to the invasion of IRAQ?

  2. brian
    September 18th, 2006 at 14:31 | #2

    Today’s “L.A. Times” reports that some in Washington are saying that what might solve all the problems of Iraq.is” a traditional Middle eastern strongman”….Wow..and Wow again.!!
    “Are you thinking what I’m thinking B.2?”to quote Bananas in Pajamas!!
    One doubts if Saddam would be interested in ruling such a basketcase nation as Bush and Co have created…but he might be persuaded..who knows… .ANYTHING is worth a try at this desperate stage !!!!!

  3. September 18th, 2006 at 15:14 | #3

    Perhaps Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno could be persuded to have another go with another country – after all he is in prison in Miami. Or is the Shah of Iran still alive – he deserves a second go surely.

  4. September 18th, 2006 at 17:40 | #4

    taust, you will probably find that no children were killed by the sanctions, the damage was done by Saddam’s refusal to comply with the UN requirement for disarmament and other conditions.

  5. Scott
    September 18th, 2006 at 18:55 | #5

    Unicef have published a number of studies showing increased death rates in Iraq, particularly for infants over the sanctions period.

    Try these:
    http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm
    http://www.childinfo.org/cmr/cmrirq.html

    The widely quoted figure of 500,000 increased child deaths due to the combined effects of the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent sanctions came from these publications.

  6. Scott
    September 18th, 2006 at 18:58 | #6

    Another report from Columbia University here:
    http://www.casi.org.uk/info/garfield/dr-garfield.html

  7. taust
    September 18th, 2006 at 19:13 | #7

    Rafe;

    the view from the other side of the mountain.

    Where the diplomatic sanctions so targeted to as far as possible minimise the damage done to civilian infrastructure and civilians?

  8. observa
    September 18th, 2006 at 19:39 | #8

    I nominate Chopper Read as a suitable strongman
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20431581-1702,00.html

  9. taust
    September 18th, 2006 at 19:40 | #9

    Scott;
    thanks for the link. The last one is especially interesting having a discussion on the humanitarian design objectives of future sanctions programs.

    That link gives the answer to the question I asked Rafe. For the Iraq sanctions there was not an effective design of the program to minimise civilian deaths in the period 1991 to 1998 when it appears the 1/2 million chlid deaths occurred. (the sanctions ended shortly after the 2003 invasion).

  10. observa
    September 18th, 2006 at 20:01 | #10

    While my United Liberal Democratic Nations could soldier on bringing freedom, light and democracy to the needy, the Non Aligned Movement can busy themseves appointing nepotistic dictators, theocratic fruitcakes and assorted communards for the failed states
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20427000-1702,00.html

  11. observa
    September 18th, 2006 at 20:07 | #11

    ‘”American imperialism is in decline. A new, bi-polar world is emerging,” Venezuela’s leftist President Hugo Chavez said.’

    Couldn’t have put it better myself Hugo old son. How is Amen Jihad and the mates these days? Talk about Blair’s Law?

  12. Mike Smith
    September 19th, 2006 at 06:59 | #12

    A very interesting video that should constrain thoughts of importing American electronic voting systems: http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html

  13. September 19th, 2006 at 16:22 | #13

    So anyhoo, there’s been some debate recently about making immigrants subscribing to “Australian Values”. The most popular one seems to be the notion of a Fair Go(TM). I’m not exactly sure what legally constitutes a Fair Go(TM), so perhaps someone can enlighten me.

  14. taust
    September 19th, 2006 at 19:42 | #14

    Alpaca;
    The employment of several hundred people to give the test and assess the results, five years of work by tens of consultants setting up an evaluating the tests and several hundred votes in some marginal seats. What could be fairer than that?

    The only downside is that because in some cultures it is hard for women to go outside the house a section of women will never learn sufficient english and thus will not recieve the protection of Australian citizenship and undoubtedly a few will get shipped back after decades of living here.

    I have often thought that we should place everyone on an equal footing for citizenship. Migrants have to get a point score to get here. How about at 18 we point score all the native born. If they cannot get the score, out to the Pacific solution they go.

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