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Monday message board

February 19th, 2007

It’s time, once again for the Monday Message Board. As usual, civilised discussion and absolutely no coarse language, please.

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  1. BilB
    February 19th, 2007 at 06:48 | #1

    And the stupidity rolls on!!!

    Well before anything has happened the lolly scramble for the possible revenues raised by carbon trading has begun. Top of the wish list. Protect energy intensive industries. Nipping at those heals are the “clean coal technology” research goblins.

    They just don’t get it. What about “to throw carbon up you have to bring it down first” is hard ot understand? It is just like juggling, with the sun being the hands to keep the cycle going. If we keep taking rocks out of the ground and throwing them up in the air, eventually they are going to fall down and hit us on the head!

  2. still working it out
    February 19th, 2007 at 07:04 | #2

    The coal lobby is going to make it very difficult for us to have a sensible carbon emissions policy. It will also make it hard for labour to come up with a policy that clearly differentiates it from the coalition.

  3. BilB
    February 19th, 2007 at 08:13 | #3

    John Howard…..Paper Tiger!

    grrr is what Howard said to Mugabwe in 2004, and since then nothing. I guess he has been distracted by his overwhelming concern for the “people of Iraq”. Leaving Mugabe free to ravage and destroy one of Africa’s leading countries.

    Inflation of 1500%, 80% unemployment, untold human rights violations, blatant election vote rigging, and now almost total abandonment of democracy, are of no concern to this Australian leader. Not when there is “mateship” (this is the glorious Australian property Howard needed to have included in a new constitution) at stake. Mateship that is for his American friend, George Bush. George Bush who doesn’t give a stuff about Zimbabwe, no oil you see. And possibly even more sinisterly an agricultural economy that if healthy would be seeking WTO access to American markets.

    A quick look at it. Iraq 26 million people being torn apart by their own religion, and us. Zimbabwe 13 million people being torn apart by an entrenched greedy political elite.

  4. gordon
    February 19th, 2007 at 08:50 | #4

    “Iraq 26 million people being torn apart by their own religion, and us”. More us than the religion. Didn’t happen before we got there.

  5. pseudonym (econowit)
    February 19th, 2007 at 09:22 | #5

    Beattie resurrects plan to divert northern rivers;

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200702/s1850802.htm

    The Tully River area gets an annual average rainfall of 4.27 metres and holds “the record for the highest annual rainfall in a populated area of Australia, with 7.9 metres in 1950″. (That’s right 4270mm.pa).

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/Queensland/Tully/2005/02/17/1108500203795.html

    Tributaries to the Darling River are only approximately 800 kilometres south of Tully, just north of Charleville; from there it is a natural down hill flow to all the way to Adelaide.

    How much would it cost move a litre of water 800 kilometres?

  6. February 19th, 2007 at 11:00 | #6

    gordon,
    It did not happen before “we” got there because they were being suppressed by a ruthless dictator. As happened in Yugoslavia, much of the old Soviet “near abroad” (Chechnya, Armenia for example) and many other places (Africa notably) these ethnic conflicts remain latent while brutal oppression is occurring.
    The mistake “we” made in planning this operation was to assume that the ethnic quiescence was for reasons other than brutal suppression. It is a mistake that has been made again and again – but it is a difficult one to get around.

  7. February 19th, 2007 at 11:41 | #7

    Blackmail is such an ugly yet accurate term for the approach of big business and government to Climate Change. It seems unless there is good profit in it, industry won’t lift a finger to save us.

    In hindsight, traditional economic models were very wrong. They ignored the delpletion of our environmental resources as a cost of production. Any honest attempt to correct thisoversight has been met with near violent opposition from the ‘money men and women’ who prosper from the rape of our world.

    The crime, and it is a crime, is that we have the brains, know how and technology now to retain our advanced lifestyle but tut to susatain it in ways compatible with the needs of life on the planet. THis is no revelation, every thinking person understands this in his or her heart. So why are we powerless to bring our collective will to bear on the decision makers.

    A thought. Why not offer a 10% reduction in the company tax rate when a company achieves and sustains a 40% reduction in its current environmental footprint, what ever that may be. Just think of how the money men and women might be motivated to cause responsible hehaviour from the polluters.

    Yes, perhaps there will be a drop in government revenue but the cost savings from not having to deal with the long term consequences of pollution will be an offset I am sure. YOu see it really is simple when you really want to do the right thing quickly

  8. Peter Wood
    February 19th, 2007 at 12:28 | #8

    It was announced last Friday that the FederaL Govt plans to spend $19 billion on roads over the next 5 years, much of which will be in marginal electorates.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s1849196.htm

    Compare this to the recent study by the Energy Suppliers Association of Australia which estimates that reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 30% by 2030 will cost $40 billion (this study does not take much account of efficiency savings).

    It’s good to see the govt has got its priorities right!

  9. Geoff Honnor
    February 19th, 2007 at 14:37 | #9

    “George Bush who doesn’t give a stuff about Zimbabwe, no oil you see. And possibly even more sinisterly an agricultural economy that if healthy would be seeking WTO access to American markets.”

    That’s one theory. I’m rather more interested in why Thabo Mbeki – who, one might of thought, may have been able to have more immediate influence on the situation – has chosen to tacitly support Mugabe.

  10. Peter Wood
    February 19th, 2007 at 16:10 | #10

    There are some clues about how an Australia wide emissions trading scheme could be implemented in this article in The Age:

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/turnbull-tick-for-carbon-plan/2007/02/18/1171733612617.html

  11. BilB
    February 19th, 2007 at 16:53 | #11

    geoff munck,
    Nicely put argumment. The tax thing is a great idea.

    geoff honnor,

    I think that thabo mbeki has a lot to answer for himself. I will ask some South African friends for their theories.

    Don’t lose sight of the fact that the western world and Africa have ignored the Zimbabwe horror. Howard carries a special responsibility here. That must not be forgotten.

  12. February 20th, 2007 at 06:42 | #12

    I am interested in some local political issues and the left’s apparent silences.

    No comments on Brian Burke’s contributions to WA urban development? No comments on Steve Brack’s secret deals with Police Association guaranteeing costs of police officers accused of corruption? On his moves to award deals to gaming firms while the Upper House investigates such – remember when he thought he would control the Upper House that he wanted such investigations? No comments on child sex and drugs allegations, lying to parliament in NSW and deals with coal miners in Queensland?

    What generates the steady stream of sleeze? Labor’s factional system?

    But I notice a lot of comment on the wickedness of John Winston Howard.

    Just wondering.

  13. jquiggin
    February 20th, 2007 at 06:53 | #13

    Harry, you seem to have trouble with your search engine. I have commented on the issues you raise, and, like you blamed “a party culture that promotes hacks and rewards factional machinations and dirty tricks.”

    This is the second comment of this kind you’ve made recently, incorrectly claiming that I haven’t commented on some particular topic. Can you do a more correct check next time, please?

    Also, as regards the wickedness of JH, my search engine suggests I’ve mentioned him three times this year, twice as regards the Obama business, and once in relation to water policy.

  14. Spiros
    February 20th, 2007 at 07:03 | #14

    Harry, the lefties at LP have commented critically on nearly all those matters, and generally the fetid masses of putrefaction that are the state labor parties.

    Since you post at LP you should know this.

  15. February 20th, 2007 at 07:08 | #15

    The comment was not directed solely towards you John but to the Monday Message Board generally which I thought you could address in this way. I think the general criticism remains valid – there is very little commentary on such issues despite them emerging on almost a weekly basis.

    BTW I agree with your post and next time I make such an embracing claim I’ll be careful to search your blog lest you provide a counterexample to the general point I am seeking to make.

  16. BilB
    February 20th, 2007 at 07:23 | #16

    Harry

    It is all a matter of scale. Howard’s Kyoto stance embarased the nation, his Bush obsession (to be fair he was in the US when the twin towers came down so his connection has more intensity as a result) is an irrationality which carried all of Australia into a futile war, his nuclear obsession is an afront to our collective intelligence. When Howard plays the cost is in the billions, when Bracks plays the cost is in the millions. That is why J Winston H is ever present in the collective writings. But don’t stop commenting about what is rotten in Labour. Lay into it. Nothing will ever get better with out exposure. There is much in Labour that is rotten. What have you heard???

  17. February 20th, 2007 at 08:22 | #17

    BilB, What have I heard? Look at the Age or Australian today, front page. And think back to the terrible recent scandals in NSW, Queensland and WA. The ‘light on the hill’ has been extinguished by State Labor politicians.

    Spiros, I like the phrase ‘fetid masses of putrefaction’. It’s accurate.

    The obvious question is whether Federal Labor would be much better. Haven’t some argued that the best Liberal politicians have gone to the Commonwealth Govt and the best Labor Politicians to the states since that’s where the respective prospects of gaining power were best. If that’s the case things might not be too promising.

  18. February 20th, 2007 at 11:31 | #18

    Your started it! No you did! Did not! Did too. Yeah, but you did it worse than me! Did not. Did too! – a summary of the elevated debate between the rival political leaders of Australia today.

    Why doesn’t it matter?

    Nobody with eyes or ears could doubt we are all mislead and lied to habitually by our leaders and our institutions, yet this doesn’t seem to matter to us.

    I don’t’ question that their deceit doesn’t matter, that much is self-evident by our lack outrage, my question is, ‘Why doesn’t it matter?’

    How can we rouse on our kids for telling little white lies or being loose with the truth but accept it from adults and public figures? What is the catalyst for deceitful behaviour morphing from unacceptable to acceptable?

    To me there is no mystery about why some kids take their lives, and other’s act disrespectfully even lawlessness. How can they form respect for anything or anyone in a Society that does not respect itself enough to say NO to deceit.

    So to you all I ask again, “why doesn’t it matter?’ I suspect that if we solve this riddle we can solve most of the ills in our world today.

  19. gordon
    February 20th, 2007 at 12:07 | #19

    Andrew Reynolds, brutal suppression or not, the Iraqis were better off before we got there.

  20. Lang
    February 20th, 2007 at 17:29 | #20

    Geoff Munck, your spot on, Iv’e had a enough of Howard and his crew dragging down Australia to their level, remember, kids were five or so when Howard got in, their now fifteen or more, and probably are swayed by the last ten years of the lies and manipulation that younger minds may accept as norm for an approach to life, what do you say when your child (my grand child )says “why did Mr Howard tell lies about throwing kids into the ocean, “Oh well, thats because he’s the Prime Minister”. Child” Oh, so thats ok then?” God help me. And the children. Howard, with his party, have a generation of Australians gaining into adults who have been given a wink that to get what you want , a little truth expansion is ok. And if anyone questions if young people observe these things, well they bloody well do, not on their top list of things of importance, however , they observe, “cause he’s the boss of the country, right!”.The children we have are the future we will get, I’m just sad about the last ten years……..
    Gordon, your correct……

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