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Birthers and sceptics

August 1st, 2009

The Internets are buzzing with the latest survey showing, among other things, Republicans are split on the Birther issue with only 47 per cent accepting the claim that Obama was born in the US. That’s almost exactly equal to the 48 per cent who agree that global warming exists – it’s evident from the public debate that the overlap between Birthers and opponents of AGW is very high ).

But I wouldn’t want to give the impression that over 50 per cent of Republicans are conspiracy theorists who believe in a secret plot to impose a Kenyan-socialist dictatorship as part of the UN/IPCC system of world government. On the contrary, the proportion is only about 25 per cent (more in the South). As on the global warming issue, the balance of opinion within the Republican Party holds to the sensible “sceptical” position: the science isn’t settled, the birth records are unclear, sightings of black helicopters need further investigation and so on. That’s good to know.

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  1. GC
    August 2nd, 2009 at 07:30 | #1

    Ah. “Kenyan”. As in his alleged place of birth. I get it now. Forgive me. I haven’t been following the “birther” conspiracy. Just read this.

  2. jquiggin
    August 2nd, 2009 at 08:00 | #2

    You omitted your link, GC.

  3. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 2nd, 2009 at 09:13 | #3

    El Mono, you are 100% correct but for a few Australians we are nowhere near the extremist South. Denying citizenship because of one’s background is very serious and this story has legs.

  4. charles
    August 2nd, 2009 at 10:34 | #4

    Steve at the pub, it has nothing to do with a failure to provide a birth certificate. That has been done, the birth notices in the local paper have been produced and the witnesses have made their statements, the birth really did happen.
    .
    As well as being stuck in a LA hotel, I read the financial press so I know it has been done and reported where real news matters ( the financial press). The reporting on the issue on the “new channels” however has been straight out crap. Surveys on how many people believe this or that. If the facts aren’t given then it all just becomes opinion. JQ missed one important point, facts have to be reported.
    .
    The state of affairs is an indication of just how bad news reporting is in the USA.
    .
    Michael of Summer Hill asks, “why do so many in the South not know where their president was born”? Because it is what they want to believe and the news service is so poor they have the option of believing what they want to.
    .
    I see it as an attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the Obama presidency by the GOP, he seems to be a responsible family man so they are unlikely to get him on a blow job. That is the beginning and end of the matter. Reality doesn’t matter to these guys.
    .
    You seem to be left with two places to get your news, the financial press or the comedy channel. Given that Murdock now owns the wall street journal, it’s going to be down to the comedy channel; feel sorry for them, they have no hope.

  5. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 | #5

    Charles, JQ is not wrong but you do acknowledge that it is more than just denial which is a good start. Tell us more.

  6. August 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 | #6

    Instead of sniping away at the murkiness surrounding the documentation of Obama’s (faked) birth in Hawaii, the birthers could uncover (oh boy it would have to be rolled gold quality)credible documentation of his birth elsewhere. Until then, I recommend they pipe down.

    In the (extremely unlikely) event such proof turns up: He is still the President.

    He is the President. End-of-Story.

  7. Donald Oats
    August 2nd, 2009 at 15:53 | #7

    Okay, okay so the birth notice is in the paper, someone gave birth, etc. But what if – wait for it – there was a switcheroo and baby Obama was smuggled in from Kenya and replaced the American baby (who has since grown up in Kenya, still in denial that he is an American President). Oh, is fate sometimes too cruel or what :-)

    More seriously, this is pretty much how the Republicans started on Bill Clinton. They attacked every chink and nick in the armour, no matter what the cost, no matter what the collateral damage. Now Obama seems to have fewer areas of weakness than Clinton, so perhaps the current attack on citizenship is simply to see how much mud will stick. I wonder how long it will be until the Republicans trot out an affair, or a tax scandal, a cigar maybe?

  8. El Mono
    August 2nd, 2009 at 16:34 | #8

    Didn’t the Republicans use to accuse Bill CLinton of assinating his political rivals?

  9. August 2nd, 2009 at 18:56 | #9

    JQ #40: “Oddly enough Steve, I just read a post from you at LP, taking an almost identical line on AGW. Given that I was just accused of posting socks in my own comment threads, please advise any new readers that you’re a regular here and not someone I’ve made up to prove my point about “sceptics”.”

    My acknowledging I occassionally post here does not imply I concede any ground to JQ, or that my opinions are anything but superior to his.

    He is entitled to his beliefs, but that don’t make them any less likely to be laughed at than anybody eles’s. And occassionally he comes out with some real corkers. Nor are my beliefs anything but hardnosed and tested.

    Quite a lot of what JQ does say is downright delusional. Perhaps I am guilty of this occassionally. But far less often than he.

  10. charles
    August 2nd, 2009 at 19:02 | #10

    Steve at the Pub
    .
    If there is a birth certificate, ( the public record), you are born in the USA. It really is the end of the matter. The news paper notices and witnesses are a bonus. It really is entertaining watching the behavior of the press and those that fall for it (welcome to the club).
    .
    There is no reason for the GOP to stop pushing the matter, this is their mode of operation, the truth doesn’t matter, it’s all about a lie being repeated often enough for there to be doubt. If you watch FOX news and nothing more I have no doubt you would believe Obama was born ex USA and he is, wait for it, we have to say this in hushed tones, a socialist (friday gave us a full page advert in USAtoday pushing that line).
    .
    I do however think the GOP has overused the swift boat stunt. The GOP vote has been declining over the last three election rounds. They are clearly doing something wrong and clearly don’t have the people with the smarts to work out what.
    .
    Compared to the Liberal party the Grand Old Party is a mess.

  11. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 2nd, 2009 at 19:41 | #11

    John, I feel sorry for Steve at the Pub for it seems there are quite a few big reds running around in the top paddock.

  12. Alice
    August 2nd, 2009 at 19:56 | #12

    @Donald Oats

    Don – its a sad reality that whenever a democrat president takes power – the well financially resourced republican dirt machinery cranks up its output (it does permit a honeymoon period though) – and if it doesnt find paydirt – it invents and publishes its own dirt.

  13. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 2nd, 2009 at 20:02 | #13

    Alice, you must feel sorry for people like Steve at the Pub who truly believe Obama was not born in the USA.

  14. charles
    August 4th, 2009 at 11:06 | #14

    Birthers just got played:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/2/761144/-Debunking-the-unbearably-stupid

    Fake emails, fake birth certificates, poor right winger nutters can’t win a rick. Perhaps there is a god.

  15. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 4th, 2009 at 11:21 | #15

    Charles, there is a copy floating around of another person with a Kenyan birth certificate born on the same day as Obama was in Hawii. But a close examination of the Kenyan birth certificate reveals the President’s name of Obama is missing.

  16. Fran Barlow
    August 4th, 2009 at 11:51 | #16

    And for a laugh, if you have six minites or so, check out Orly Taitz going nuts about the “MSM brownshirts”.

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