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Monday Message Board

September 28th, 2009

Its time once again for Monday Message Board. Post comments on any topic. As usual, civilised discussion and no coarse language.

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  1. Alice
    October 4th, 2009 at 21:46 | #1

    Freelander – according to some vague info out there (Im not a geneticist) we didnt descend from apes – they descended from us…but we do share a common ancestor…and Ardi is our cousin not our mother…Ardi with her strong metatarsal and thumb muscles was born to text and not swing through the trees but walked a million years before Lucy…the human ancestor..if all that makes sense.

    http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/44163/178/

  2. SeanG
    October 5th, 2009 at 00:18 | #2

    Is social democracy fundamentally anti-liberal?

    If Liberalism is about moving power away from the few elites in society, towards the many via democracy and the impartial rule of law, then social democracy which is about a large State controlling the economy and hence decisions, about pushing down the successful via high tax… then is this not the opposite of liberalism?

  3. Freelander
    October 5th, 2009 at 04:06 | #3

    Liberalism and libertarianism are not the same thing.

  4. Freelander
    October 5th, 2009 at 04:22 | #4

    High tax is not pushing down the successful. It is simply encouraging the otherwise overpaid to work harder!

    This is opposed to the right recipe where you pay those at the bottom less (by thaking away their rights through things like Work Choices) to encourage them to work harder (so they don’t starve – keep them lean) and give those at the top higher pay to ‘incentivise’ them to work harder (at ripping everyone off and create an almighty mess like the GFC).

    Also, with ‘high taxes’ it is a misunderstanding to think that the tax was their money anyway. If it was theirs they would get to keep it. If they don’t it wasn’t theirs. And if they were supposed to pay it and don’t then they are breaking the law and ought to be dealt with accordingly.

  5. Alice
    October 5th, 2009 at 08:25 | #5

    @SeanG
    Sean G – you suggest “If Liberalism is about moving power away from the few elites in society”

    The problem with liberalism is it has been having a perverse outcome Sean. The move towards more liberalism especially in the financial sector where the wealth of elites concentrates has resulted in an even greater sbhift of power to the elites.

    Thats the whole problem I have with these liberals..and liberalists who keep calling for more de-regulation. They simply cannot see their own ideology is having the completely opposite effect to their expected outcomes of a nice freer cutsie pie small town, small happy village scenario.

    Sean – IT. DIDNT. TRICKLE. DOWN. IT TRICKLED UP and OUT SIDEWAYS towards the maintenance of the lifestyles of luxury of the powerful. Toward empty holiday homes and empty boats and artworks (did you read what Madoff paid for his dinner sets Sean?) that sit idly producing little of anything bar their original construction which could have been part of GDP 20 years ago – nothing now. Thats the whole problem. It got sucked into a vortex of spin which blew larger and larger as powerful hands kept sweeping out trillions to play with in the casino whilst the whole time, real business and real employers and real employment started to grow wan and no one wanted to see itn – so they clutched on to
    “trickle down” hoping they could keep the trick going longer.

    Liberalism – if you want what you say you really want you would be calling for more social democracy, not the unfettered unregulated shambolism that has been going on. Freelander is right. Your end view is nice Sean but your methodolgy on how to get there is an utter dismal abject failure.

    No wonder they call this the dismal science. It becomes dismal wwatching others get fervently rapturous over the emporers new clothes.

  6. Michael of Summer Hill
    October 5th, 2009 at 08:40 | #6

    SeanG, government intervention isn’t such a bad thing and at times it would be in the ‘national interest’ to ensure a company such as Fortescue Metals is given all the help it needs. Think of the government receipts.

  7. October 7th, 2009 at 12:31 | #7

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