A day ago, it looked as if Malcolm Turnbull could survive at least long enough to implement his deal with Labor, a deal that would deliver a drastically weakened emissions trading scheme with massive overcompensation of every possible big business interest. It would be marvellous to report that a popular uprising against rent-seeking lobby groups changed all this. But, in fact, Turnbull’s leadership has been rendered untenable by a Liberal Party base, and commentariat, that has entered a state of collective insanity in which the most absurd conspiracy theories are taken as a starting point for reasoning. Over time on this blog, I’ve seen even seemingly sensible commenters of a libertarian or conservative cast of mind succumb to this tribalist lunacy. The handful who have resisted (hi, Tokyo Tom) are increasingly regarded as “beyond the pale”.
From delusional beliefs on climate science follow equally delusional beliefs on political strategy, symbolised by the 37 votes for a Kevin Andrews spill yesterday and by the apparent certainty that, assuming Turnbull holds his ground, a majority of Liberals will vote for the delusionist candidate, Tony Abbott
Amazingly, even the editorialist at the Oz, whose columnists have uniformly promoted delusional conspiracy theories recognises the hopelessness of such a stance. as the Oz says
In truth, there is nowhere for Coalition members to go on this issue, other than to support the amended and improved bill and claim as their work the concessions they have wrung from the government. The introduction of a cap-and-trade ETS has been bipartisan policy for more than two years and it is supreme folly for rebels within the Liberals to believe they can go to an election as the destroyers, rather than the enablers, of such a scheme.
There may be room for the Nationals to argue against an ETS in the bush, but it is politically naive to think that voters in the inner-city areas of Melbourne and Sydney would welcome such regressive policies from their MPs. How exactly would Mr Abbott, for example, propose campaigning on this issue in seats such as North Sydney and Wentworth, where Liberal voters are determined to see action on climate change? Having a bob each way on the issue will not go down well with voters who have followed the debate and who expect, as Mr Turnbull says, responsible political parties to take responsible action
There is no reasoning with lunatics, and my attempts to do so have gone nowhere. At this point, we just have to hope that they will remain, as they are at present, in the minority, and that they can be kept as far as possible from political power.
There’s no guarantee that sanity will prevail. As the conman in Huckleberry Finn says ‘Hain’t we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain’t that a big enough majority in any town?” But, as I recall, he ends up tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.
John Quiggin 
Oh Boy
What I wouldn’t give to have old Samual sitting up in the press gallery, sending some dispatches out to the world..
It does raise a fundamental problem in any representative democracy – the people who put their hand up in the air asking for the job are probably the least qualified. If you want the job, we don’t want you.
Even those in the general population who may have believed that there is still a debate about AGW (simply because some in authority have been saying there is) are changing their minds as a result of casual empiricism. Shrinking Arctic ice cap, collapsing Antarctic iceshelfs, icebergs at unusual latitudes, extreme weather events and the cascade of weather records being set, the ‘everything is fine’, the ‘scientists don’t know what they are talking about’, the ‘actually it has been cooling for the last decade’ mantra is wearing thin. Having reached a point of extreme psychological crisis and facing the crushing humiliation of being so very wrong, the deniers are desperately trying to convince others in the hope that if others believe their delusion then their delusion must be true. Simply pitiful if it weren’t so serious.
With egos so vast the pain must be unbearable.
John, I don’t remember how many of the Liberal lunatics objected to Howard’s ETS but Turnbull has not been the one doing an about face and/or creating mischief, if anything it has been the neo-conservative illywackers flipping out and going beserk.
Some of above was just considered on Lateline the form of a conversation between Laura Tingle (not norder!), the relatively educated small “c” fairfax broadsheet journo, and that abject failure of humanity, Peter van Onselen.
Van Onselen’s contribution was limited to a presentation of his masters voice, the Murdoch spin on the issue, including. “Malcolm is a rampaging beast of a Caliban because he won’t kiss Wilson’s butt”. Also something approaching something along the lines of the motley crew of sociopathic backstabbers and wingnuts as somehow”heroic” in “standing up ” to this raging cyclops of a Turnbull.
@Michael of Summer Hill
I think the ‘flipping out and going beserk’ has been precipitated by the ‘illywackers’ frightening realisation that they have been wrong all along. They are suffering not just a ‘crisis of faith’ (as those faith-based individuals do from time to time) they are also recognising their looming humiliation, which will be not only be public and contemporary, but will also be their only legacy – a legacy which will presist in the Australian psyche for several generations.
@paul walter
I am always amused that Abbot considers himself a source of moral leadership. Maybe a case of punch-drunk self-love?
And isn’t that getting fairly close to the common definition of “sociopath”, Freelander?
@paul walter
I think some sociopaths are more self aware, although they do share Tony’s self love and do have a flexible take on right and wrong. He may suffer from what Dr Nelson diagnosed his colleague as having – a narcissistic personality disorder. However, young Tony doesn’t seem to have the sensitivity to criticism associated with that disorder, so maybe you are right. Maybe we need a second opinion?
Freelander, re sensitivity to criticism, methinks that beneath that bland exterior is an individual quite capable of explosive violence, should the opportunity ever present. If the impluse there is well governed than we accede, but then I wonder if it’s been put to the test in an out of ordinary situation, yet (for that pathology).
And I found Abbott’s responses with the media after that metaphorical knifing of Turnbull, just a bit disturbing.
What can I say? Lunatics all, and once again it looks like the Liberals beat down the wishes of the people concerning environmental issues, in this case the big one of anthropogenic global warming (AGW). Under the previous Liberal government, they managed to scupper the Australian opportunity at Kyoto and to convert it into a massive delay of 12 years of forgetting about the issue. Meanwhile the evidence has kept stacking up.
Now, from opposition no less, the Liberals intend again to thwart the will of the people. Except, it is a very specific subset of Liberals who are attempting this over the still warm body of Turnbull. Nick “The Knife” Minchin, and his band of Merry Mice have a lot to gloat about. And the best they can come up with is that AGW involves a global conspiracy to install a world government by stealth. I’ve gone from rage at these marauders to complete contempt.
Still, at least the sun is coming up again. Some things never change.
Donald, I feel that contempt of yours is a big factor in what has got the blogosphere fired up right now.
Hide the decline,also.
And on the subject of cowardice and lack of integrity, how many noticed that sly, sleight of hand delivery of reactionary social policy released by that gutless creature Macklin under cover of darkness, the other day?
Hope people follow up on an article about this by Rachel Siewert, 26/11, in New Matilda, entitled,”Macklin announces massive changes to welfare”.
@Sarah Palin Fan
Huh?
@paul walter
Paul – that is really quite pathetic. Did you know also that Mt Isa is coping with people moving into town to get away from the Northern Territory Intervention? Reports says its 100 to 1000 a week. Jenny Macklin kindly donated the princely sum of $10,000 to help support services there cope.
That was mighty generous of her (not). Still, I suppose they can buy an extra desk and a couple of chairs with the money.
And they want to extend this to the whole of Australia including single mums, newstart and youth allowance recipients. Has Rudd’s govt gone “rightly” mad also or do they just like the interest income they get from quarantined welfare benefits?? Is it a grab from and a kick to the poorest? Has Coles and Woolies got in Macklin’s ear because they like the voucher system for food purchases – especially when you can only use them at Coles and Woolies?
Macklin – wake up. You are sleep walking.
In what sense do you mean”pathetic”, Alice? ( BTW, were you “lurking”?)
“Pathetic” as a response to the despicable Intervention, or Sen. Siewert’s article at New Matilda ” that speaks my viewpoint. Btw if you mean that I’M pathetic, I’ll stick to Siewert over wretched neolib thieves, any day.
“Through this change in policy the government is not so much moving away from discrimination against Aboriginal people as expanding its dicrimination to include a wider group of low income and disadvantaged”.
I further applaud Siewert for the following:
” Rather than punishing low income families, the government should be dealing with the underlying causes of neglect and delivering proper support for families in crisis”.
Of course, if the government REALLY wanted to end discrimination and institute equity prior to “reform”, it could put aborigines up on the same, more comfortable level as white Dolies, which in turn could be brought up to the princely amount of disability pensioners on whose REAL income level, couild be forgiven for a little “special pleading”, dont you think?
One suposes theyhave to find the money topay off big coal soomehow, but why not middle and corporate welfare rather than those least able to cope. This is just Howardism botoxed.
Its about straightjacketed adherence to and implemetation of neolib ideology followed not only be the cretin coalition, but a dominant chunk of New Labor.
”
I call this part of the unhalted “Hicks /Haneef-isation” of Australian law as extended to other groups as Howard (and Rudd?) originally intended for other “undeserving” groups.
Why chase Abbott when we alreadyy have Macklin and Rudd?
@paul walter
I meant Macklins changes pathetic Paul (not your comment- and Im very glad you raised the matter and posted the link) but on looking back I can see the first line not at all clear.
If they go to a DD Paul they can expect to deal with more Greens. Excellent response from Siewert.
Alice
I worked out you weren’t picky, its just not you.
But my comment required FULL grumpyhood- at least 300 oaf power- to assuage righteous indignation and lift a dinkum down cast expression.
The lunatics have the belief that by playing to the most ignorant that they are protecting their seats. However they are looking so much like madmen that they are likely to be displaced by independents. At least with an independent you know that they will not follow along party lines and character comes into it.
The lunatics at this point think they are playing to their constituencies. However it is more likely that those who thnk differently are just not saying anything to them because why waste your time and effort on a lost cause.
John, it seems like lunacy continues for if anyone has been ‘spooked’ it has been the neo-conservative illywackers and not Turnbull. Have some get it wrong.
JQ, the title to this post and the use of the term “lunatic” are examples of the kind of behavior that SANE Australia is trying to stop with its StigmaWatch programme.
http://www.sane.org/stigmawatch/stigmawatch.html
I don’t think you would refer to any other illness with such outdated and offensive terminology.
Why use mental illness is this way?
I suggest that you read the relevant parts of SANE’s website.
A small donation to their good work would be appreciated.
The recalcitrant group of Liberals remind of TV docos on dinosaurs. The lumbering beasts line up at the shrinking waterhole to sip the last few drops. Meanwhile shooting stars can be seen in the distant sky. They don’t know what’s about to hit them.
The ABC PM program last night pointed the finger at Andrew Bolt as a major driving force behind the emails deluging the opposition denialists, encouraging them in the further delusion that their position is popular. Blot himself sounded completely demented, chuckling at inappropriate moments, claiming that Tim Flannery had gone over to his side and that the world is cooling etc etc. Yeats’s line about the worst being full of passionate intensity seemed appropriate. Fortunately, the best seem still to have some conviction, so the rough beast is still a way off.
Lunatics? How about:
Tony Abbott, Prime Minister,
Wilson Tuckey, Minister for Defence,
Nick Minchin, Minister for Social Security,
Alby Schultz, Minister for Finance
Kevin Andrews, Foreign Minister
Barnaby Joyce, Minister for Education
David Oldfield, Electoral Commissioner,
Keith Windschuttle, Chair of ABC.
@ken n
I wasn’t aware that lunatic, in its modern use, is taken to refer to any particular mental illness (or group of mental illnesses). In its modern use, I can only recall hearing it used to refer to people whose behaviour, while remarkably stupid and bizarre, does not fall under the rubric of ‘mental illness’. Quarantining this perfectly good word seems insufferably p. c. to me.
@Chris Warren
Dont forget Janet Albrechtsen and Miranda Devine
@paul walter
And Paul – what sneakthief time Macklin picked to shove this odious welfare plan through…it will cause utter and complete chaos. Can you imagine single mum’s across the country trying to feed their kids in the face of recalcitrant males who have buggered off and wont pay? Can you imagine all the uni students living in somewhere having their living away from home allowances quarantined? Can you imagine youth trying to get a job (and satisfy the attend interviews, attend training, pay bus or train fares) having their income quarantined?
I dont know where Macklin gets off. Does she actually get that the benefits these people receive are unliveable on anyway without them having to deal with government authorities in the purchase of basic essentials (where, what, how and who gets paid) and imagine the poor B******ds facing this with higher unemployment, rampant underemployment and being forced to front up to the cosy grocery dupoloy for food at exorbitant prices and not get to eat some cheaper way. Jeez even a pub counter lunch is cheaper than going to Woolies and doing it yourself.
Alright for Macklin on her salary but I will bet this stupid idea is from some neoliberal twat still rusted on in Treasury. They call this a Labor Government.]
As I said and I am now working myself up into a full display of grotesque grumpiness. Here come the greens.
Alice, you are fully inflated, too?
@paul walter
Not yet Paul but I am close.
You are a great little battling Aussie sheila!
I’m mad as Hell and I not gonna take it!
Damn. Must’ve crossed over to the “Grumpy old men” universe when I wasn’t looking.
As a professional Mentally Ill Person 😛 I fully endorse the use of “Lunatic” for describing the far-king right of the Liberal party.
With the blitzkrieg by the denierati captains – Carter and de Frietas on NZ radio and terrorising the citizens; Monkton on his Canada and USA tour; Plimer and Carter, Barnaby “Carbuncle” Joyce criss-crossing the Aussie outback giving entertaining garble-fests on the nasty world wide conspiracy; and then there are the opinionators like Bolt, bludgeoning into submission each and every far-king right Liberal he can find, with bolt-spam. Or Barnaby “Carbuncle” Joyce again, with his unscrupulous front page on his website concerning the CRU hack, and his web-based online “survey” which is a petition. McLean et al being organised to ensure a good supply of Letters to the Editor in the Oz whenever one of their cohort get an(other) opinion piece in the pages. Or the making sure that news stories by their “friends” in one country are relayed by MSM to other countries, to get maximum single day coverage if possible.
They are fairly organised now, even compared to a year or so ago.
@Alice
Paul and Don – I just cant let myself get fully inflated – have to let some air out of the pressure release valve – otherwise I would be in breach of comments policy due to eruption of invective soaked expletives.
oops replied to myself instead of Paul. Oh well…nothing quite like talking to yourself.
Lunacy is all the rage in Labor and Liberals anyway. I may as well be a lunatic as well.
Freelander and DO – please read the SANE site about StigmaWatch.
“Lunatic” is an obsolete word for someone who is mentally ill and that, we must assume, is why JQ used to attack the behavior of LP politicians.
Although not as serious as some of the outrageous things written by journalists around the country (many quoted on the SANE site), I believe it is unacceptable to suggest that people whose behavior to you seems “remarkably stupid and bizarre” must be mentally ill.
Very few mentally ill people display behavior that is stupid and bizarre.
You are, and this is the point of my original comment, encouraging an out of date and quite inaccurate view of mental illness.
An understanding by the denailists of the underlying intentions of the Howard and Rudd governments explains the difference in the conservative’s response to John Howard’s promise to introduce an ETS in 2012 and Malcolm Turnbull’s support for the Rudd government’s CPRS. It’s safe to say that Nick Minchin’s and Tony Abbott’s (et al) equanimity towards the Howard ETS was based on their understanding that John Howard wasn’t serious about ever introducing an ETS. He was happy to talk about it as a means of neutralising it as a political issue, but everyone understood that an excuse (or a pipeline of excuses) could be found to justify a delay in its actual introduction at any point in time.
It can be argued that the Howard ETS would have been little different to the Rudd CPRS. And that’s probably correct given the consensus amongst our governing elite about what the national interest is, and what should be done to preserve it. However, Nick Minchin knew that while the Coalition remained in power, it would never be implemented and so it was a policy he could defend and promote without guilt. The deal between Malcolm Turnbull and Kevin Rudd to actually push the CPRS through Parliament, and for it to start in July 2011 stripped away the protection of the equivocal position he and the other denialists had been able to embrace. (At least as it applied to those denialists who cared about the fudging the extent of their rejection of human induced/amplified climate change science.)
I took the use of lunatic not to mean a mental illness but to mean a collective hysteria which is incomprehensible for its sheer self destruction (as in the lunatic fringe). Linking it with an asylum may be cause for concern by SANE but to make the analogy with Parliament House is not so strange as it is the use of a metaphor which links to ideas of bedlam which is either a place in uproar or a lunatic asylum.
The dictionary definition of lunatic is to be insane which in turn is defined as mentally ill OR extremely foolish or senseless. This latter definition it the one that is being used in this post as far as I can see. The behaviour of the Liberal/Nationals is insane in this sense as the way that they are behaving is leading to the destruction of their “brand”. Whilst there are those who are unable to see nuance in words I don’t believe we should reduce the richness of our language as a response.
I have turned to astrological inspiration for answers. Lunacy peaks at the time of the full moon. The next full moon is th 2nd of December. The worst is yet to come.
“After displays of lunacy memory loss ensues rapidly and the patient does not recall the acts of lunacy.” Politicians are notorious for their selective short term memories, so are the citizens. there are no long term implications politically. The political status quo will be retained and the feeble ETS will be a noose around society back pocket.
There we have it!
The Definitive from Jill Rush.
Alice, they reckon one needs only worry when gets replies. Or beleives them?
Donald Oats, you reference to Barny-boy had an actual physical affect.
Gee, there is some thing putrid under that bunch right now.
I don’t want to argue about use of the word lunatic – I raised it because I thought that JQ would want to follow accepted (if sometimes overlooked) guidelines of journalistic practice.
Seems to me that you either accept SANE’s requests or you don’t.
kem n, you have your first and second paragraphs out of order.
To (most) of the rest of you, thanks for easing my depression, I might have thought I was in la la land and anxious on that score, had you not confirmed, on the whole, that my astonishment at what I’ve been witnessing over the last fortnight is justifiable.
Three cheers for mental health.
@paul walter
Thanks Paul. When Im fully inflated and erupt with invective ridden expletives I rarely get any replies so Im fine. Thats a relief.
If its not me, it must be everyone else then, especially that sorry tawdry lot in Liblab in Canberra.
@Sarah Palin Fan quotes “Hide the decline.”
Hide the decline is the latest in a long string of attacks against CRU scientists and associates. A rather pathetic attack and CRU have responded to it, including the addressing so-called “hidden decline”.
It seems that we have open war of the most perfidious kind on science now. First the creationists, then the tobacconists, the DDTers, the Ozonists, the IDers, and the biggest, most coordinated attack, that of the Heartland Institute and its conferences for the anti-ACC/AGW sect. The connections made there allow transfer of attack methodology to people of all stripes and nationalities.
In case people missed some of this slow burn towards unwinding scientific principles and institutions, under the previous Gov, CSIRO had Donna Staunton appointed to head the media unit. Pity she had been a lawyer for a rather large Tobacco firm. The operation of tighter than usual gags upon climate scientists in 2004 blew up in the face of CSIRO and the government. That was a close call. Given her background she was compromised from the beginning, and that is not saying anything about her personal ethics and beliefs, it just a direct observation of the nature of her previous employment.
Anywa, now the lunatics of the far-king right, who incidentally under the previous Howard gov, happily pushed ID (Intelligent Design, as opposed to Darwin’s theory of Evolution) into science and biology classes. From my rusty brain’s memory, more than 100 non-public schools already actively promote ID in the schoolroom. Good one! So every new set of shiny-bright business people and lawyers trained in these schools will have an anti-Darwinian perspective on biological science and implicit in that, a distrust of “mainstream scientists” who must be hiding the truth.
That infiltration of science by the far-king right politicians is one substantial reason why I was angry at them; the latest nonsense, Sarah Palin Fan, is one in which these lunatics have evaded the usual conventions of the Liberal party, in order to thrust upon the majority of the Liberals an extreme thesis concerning climate change and by consequence, claim there is no longer a need for an ETS. This win at all costs, ends always justifies the means, squash people rather than negotiate; this is what has finally moved me to utter contempt for them.
PS: I’ll try to find a link for the “more than 100…”. I’m fairly confident I’ve remembered it correctly.
@ken n
In your view…
in many ways “the lunatics…” is now an idiomatic expression so the individual constituents no longer have their singular meanings
@ken n
http://www.sane.org/forms/report_a_media_item_to_stigmawatch.html —
“Use of non diagnostic terms such as ‘crazy’ or ‘insane’ may not be strong enough on their own to warrant action”
SANE puts that on its site so that Stigmawatchers won’t give people the idea that SANE is insanely PC.
I say this, having visited family in psych wards and being none to flash myself.
@ken n
I take your point ken n. Use of “lunatic” as an unencumbered noun is indeed an archaic word for “insane” or “mentally ill”, and in that context may be viewed by some as a perjorative term. Personally I agree with your implicit sentiment that we should move away from the old collective view of mental illness. I admit I still like the word though, as a characterisation of someone who holds utterly ridiculous opinions, or in “lunatic fringe”, which my dictionary states is a noun, meaning “the members of a society or group who adopt or support views regarded as extreme or fanatical.” [Collins English Dictionary, Australian Edition, Third Edition, (1991), Harper-Collins]
If we ceased using “lunatic”, but more properly referred to Nick “The Knife” Minchin and his Mighty Mice as the “lunatic fringe” of the Liberal party, would that pass muster with you?
Donald, care with perjoratives is generally a good tactic. I think you do offer a good defence of JQs use of “lunatic fringe”.
I believe there are so many people touched by mental illness or mental deficiency e.g. Down’s syndrome or early dementia thats best to be respectful. Contempt is a too strong attitude, dont you think?
But look at the blogosphere this week. Never mind lunatic, the question is: who are on the fringe? It could be some of your heroes.
Please, SPF and friend, leave it a troll free zone…
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