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Weekend reflections

December 19th, 2009

It’s time again for weekend reflections, which makes space for longer than usual comments on any topic. Civilised discussion and no coarse language please.

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  1. Chris Warren
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:17 | #1

    It looks like Copenhagen is a dressed-up calamity.

    Anyone unsure of the importance of global warming only need to look at Australian temperature data.

    Over 1876-1900 Sydney average temperatures were 1.5 degrees less than over 1984-2008.

    This is a very significant move.

    If you analyse the full dataset at: BOM data you see a general rising tendency that presumably is based on growth in population, agriculture, deforestation and industrialisation.

    The 2003 and 2004 data is astonishing.

    The data is:

    Year,Month,Mean maximum temperature (°C)

    1876,1,26.1
    1876,2,25.3
    1876,3,25.6
    1876,4,23.1
    1876,5,18.5
    1876,6,16.1
    1876,7,14.6
    1876,8,16.7
    1876,9,19.2
    1876,10,21.6
    1876,11,23.6
    1876,12,25.1
    1877,1,25.7
    1877,2,25.9
    1877,3,24.2
    1877,4,22
    1877,5,18.4
    1877,6,16.7
    1877,7,15.8
    1877,8,17.9
    1877,9,18.7
    1877,10,21
    1877,11,24
    1877,12,26.6
    1878,1,25.9
    1878,2,24.9
    1878,3,25.3
    1878,4,22.6
    1878,5,18.4
    1878,6,14.3
    1878,7,15.5
    1878,8,18.1
    1878,9,19.9
    1878,10,22.3
    1878,11,24.9
    1878,12,25
    1879,1,25.4
    1879,2,24.8
    1879,3,22.8
    1879,4,20.1
    1879,5,16.8
    1879,6,14.6
    1879,7,14.1
    1879,8,16
    1879,9,18.5
    1879,10,22.2
    1879,11,22.8
    1879,12,23.6
    1880,1,25.6
    1880,2,24.1
    1880,3,24.2
    1880,4,21.3
    1880,5,18.4
    1880,6,15.5
    1880,7,14.7
    1880,8,18.9
    1880,9,18.9
    1880,10,20.2
    1880,11,23.2
    1880,12,25.1
    1881,1,24.4
    1881,2,24.5
    1881,3,24.7
    1881,4,21
    1881,5,19.4
    1881,6,14.9
    1881,7,14.6
    1881,8,17
    1881,9,18.3
    1881,10,19.6
    1881,11,22.5
    1881,12,24.8
    1882,1,25.9
    1882,2,25.3
    1882,3,24.9
    1882,4,21.2
    1882,5,18.6
    1882,6,15
    1882,7,15.1
    1882,8,17
    1882,9,21.7
    1882,10,21.3
    1882,11,22.5
    1882,12,25.5
    1883,1,24.8
    1883,2,24.5
    1883,3,23.7
    1883,4,21.2
    1883,5,17.9
    1883,6,16.6
    1883,7,15
    1883,8,17.8
    1883,9,18
    1883,10,20.3
    1883,11,22
    1883,12,26.2
    1884,1,26.1
    1884,2,26
    1884,3,24.1
    1884,4,20.9
    1884,5,18
    1884,6,15.9
    1884,7,16.5
    1884,8,18.4
    1884,9,19.3
    1884,10,21.2
    1884,11,21.9
    1884,12,25.9
    1885,1,26.5
    1885,2,26.4
    1885,3,24.3
    1885,4,21.6
    1885,5,19.8
    1885,6,15.5
    1885,7,14.9
    1885,8,18.6
    1885,9,21.1
    1885,10,22.3
    1885,11,23.4
    1885,12,25.2
    1886,1,26.4
    1886,2,27
    1886,3,24.3
    1886,4,21.8
    1886,5,18.9
    1886,6,15.4
    1886,7,15.3
    1886,8,17.1
    1886,9,19.3
    1886,10,21.8
    1886,11,24.1
    1886,12,24
    1887,1,26.2
    1887,2,24.8
    1887,3,24.7
    1887,4,21
    1887,5,16.7
    1887,6,14.1
    1887,7,15.4
    1887,8,15.6
    1887,9,18.1
    1887,10,21.5
    1887,11,21.5
    1887,12,23.8
    1888,1,25.4
    1888,2,25
    1888,3,24.1
    1888,4,22.3
    1888,5,17.8
    1888,6,16.8
    1888,7,15.6
    1888,8,16.8
    1888,9,18.4
    1888,10,20.8
    1888,11,24.1
    1888,12,24.6
    1889,1,26.3
    1889,2,25.3
    1889,3,24.3
    1889,4,21.1
    1889,5,18.9
    1889,6,16
    1889,7,14.3
    1889,8,15.9
    1889,9,17.4
    1889,10,21.1
    1889,11,22.7
    1889,12,26.1
    1890,1,25.1
    1890,2,24.5
    1890,3,23.1
    1890,4,20.4
    1890,5,17.7
    1890,6,16.6
    1890,7,13.6
    1890,8,16.6
    1890,9,19.3
    1890,10,23.3
    1890,11,22.9
    1890,12,23.6
    1891,1,27.3
    1891,2,24
    1891,3,23.9
    1891,4,20.8
    1891,5,17.8
    1891,6,15.8
    1891,7,14.5
    1891,8,16.3
    1891,9,17.6
    1891,10,21.2
    1891,11,22.5
    1891,12,26.4
    1892,1,25.1
    1892,2,25.7
    1892,3,23.7
    1892,4,20.2
    1892,5,18.2
    1892,6,15.5
    1892,7,14.8
    1892,8,16
    1892,9,17.9
    1892,10,20.7
    1892,11,22.7
    1892,12,23.9
    1893,1,24.1
    1893,2,24.1
    1893,3,23
    1893,4,20
    1893,5,18
    1893,6,15.1
    1893,7,15.3
    1893,8,16.8
    1893,9,19.6
    1893,10,21.5
    1893,11,23.3
    1893,12,24.8
    1894,1,25.8
    1894,2,25.2
    1894,3,23.2
    1894,4,21.7
    1894,5,17.3
    1894,6,16.3
    1894,7,14.8
    1894,8,16.7
    1894,9,17.5
    1894,10,21.2
    1894,11,26.5
    1894,12,24.8
    1895,1,23.6
    1895,2,24.4
    1895,3,23.7
    1895,4,21.6
    1895,5,17.7
    1895,6,16.2
    1895,7,14.3
    1895,8,17.9
    1895,9,20
    1895,10,23
    1895,11,22.8
    1895,12,27.2
    1896,1,29.5
    1896,2,24.9
    1896,3,23.5
    1896,4,22.3
    1896,5,18.6
    1896,6,15
    1896,7,13.4
    1896,8,15.1
    1896,9,18.3
    1896,10,23.2
    1896,11,22.1
    1896,12,25.4
    1897,1,25.7
    1897,2,25.5
    1897,3,23.8
    1897,4,23.7
    1897,5,18.7
    1897,6,16.3
    1897,7,15.8
    1897,8,16
    1897,9,19.7
    1897,10,22.5
    1897,11,26.4
    1897,12,23.8
    1898,1,26.4
    1898,2,26.1
    1898,3,24.6
    1898,4,21.9
    1898,5,16.6
    1898,6,15.7
    1898,7,15.4
    1898,8,16.4
    1898,9,20.6
    1898,10,23.5
    1898,11,25.2
    1898,12,23.7
    1899,1,26.2
    1899,2,24.6
    1899,3,25.3
    1899,4,21.8
    1899,5,17.6
    1899,6,15.1
    1899,7,14.2
    1899,8,15.2
    1899,9,20.5
    1899,10,20.9
    1899,11,23.9
    1899,12,26.2
    1900,1,26.6
    1900,2,25.9
    1900,3,24.9
    1900,4,20.6
    1900,5,17.3
    1900,6,15.8
    1900,7,13.9
    1900,8,16.1
    1900,9,18.1
    1900,10,23.7
    1900,11,23.1
    1900,12,25.2

    1984,1,25.6
    1984,2,26.8
    1984,3,24
    1984,4,22.8
    1984,5,19.9
    1984,6,18.3
    1984,7,16.1
    1984,8,18.9
    1984,9,19.7
    1984,10,22
    1984,11,24.6
    1984,12,25.3
    1985,1,26.8
    1985,2,24.4
    1985,3,25.6
    1985,4,22.5
    1985,5,19.9
    1985,6,17.7
    1985,7,17
    1985,8,17.7
    1985,9,19.7
    1985,10,21.6
    1985,11,23.5
    1985,12,27.4
    1986,1,25.9
    1986,2,26.2
    1986,3,25.5
    1986,4,24.8
    1986,5,20.8
    1986,6,18
    1986,7,17.3
    1986,8,17.9
    1986,9,20.9
    1986,10,22.4
    1986,11,21.8
    1986,12,24.7
    1987,1,27
    1987,2,26.9
    1987,3,24.2
    1987,4,22.9
    1987,5,20.5
    1987,6,18.2
    1987,7,16.9
    1987,8,18.7
    1987,9,21.4
    1987,10,21.4
    1987,11,24.6
    1987,12,24.3
    1988,1,26.8
    1988,2,25.7
    1988,3,25
    1988,4,22.5
    1988,5,20.9
    1988,6,18.5
    1988,7,18.7
    1988,8,19.3
    1988,9,21.8
    1988,10,26.2
    1988,11,23.8
    1988,12,25.4
    1989,1,25.4
    1989,2,26.3
    1989,3,25.2
    1989,4,23.1
    1989,5,20.5
    1989,6,16.7
    1989,7,16.3
    1989,8,17.3
    1989,9,20.9
    1989,10,24.2
    1989,11,23.6
    1989,12,25.3
    1990,1,25.5
    1990,2,25.4
    1990,3,25.3
    1990,4,23.1
    1990,5,21.3
    1990,6,17.4
    1990,7,17.3
    1990,8,17.5
    1990,9,19.4
    1990,10,21.9
    1990,11,24.5
    1990,12,28.6
    1991,1,29.1
    1991,2,28.2
    1991,3,25.6
    1991,4,23.1
    1991,5,20
    1991,6,19.5
    1991,7,17
    1991,8,18.8
    1991,9,21.5
    1991,10,23.7
    1991,11,23.4
    1991,12,24.2
    1992,1,25.3
    1992,2,25
    1992,3,25.4
    1992,4,22.5
    1992,5,19.7
    1992,6,17.3
    1992,7,17.8
    1992,8,18.1
    1992,9,19.7
    1992,10,21.1
    1992,11,22.3
    1992,12,24
    1993,1,26.5
    1993,2,27.3
    1993,3,24.7
    1993,4,23.6
    1993,5,20.3
    1993,6,17.3
    1993,7,17.6
    1993,8,18.9
    1993,9,19.8
    1993,10,22.3
    1993,11,23.2
    1993,12,25.7
    1994,1,28.2
    1994,2,26.3
    1994,3,23.5
    1994,4,23.2
    1994,5,21.2
    1994,6,18.1
    1994,7,18
    1994,8,18.7
    1994,9,21.7
    1994,10,22.3
    1994,11,24.6
    1994,12,24.9
    1995,1,24.8
    1995,2,25.1
    1995,3,25.1
    1995,4,22
    1995,5,20.2
    1995,6,17.5
    1995,7,16.8
    1995,8,21.3
    1995,9,19.3
    1995,10,21.9
    1995,11,24.2
    1995,12,23.7
    1996,1,25.4
    1996,2,25.2
    1996,3,24.6
    1996,4,23.6
    1996,5,21
    1996,6,18.3
    1996,7,17.2
    1996,8,18.9
    1996,9,21.7
    1996,10,22.1
    1996,11,23.4
    1996,12,24.4
    1997,1,24.1
    1997,2,26.3
    1997,3,25.7
    1997,4,24.4
    1997,5,20.1
    1997,6,18
    1997,7,16.7
    1997,8,18.7
    1997,9,19.4
    1997,10,22.9
    1997,11,25.5
    1997,12,26.8
    1998,1,27.6
    1998,2,29
    1998,3,27
    1998,4,23.4
    1998,5,20.1
    1998,6,17.6
    1998,7,16.2
    1998,8,18.1
    1998,9,22.1
    1998,10,23.6
    1998,11,21.7
    1998,12,25.7
    1999,1,26.6
    1999,2,26.1
    1999,3,25.7
    1999,4,21.7
    1999,5,20.9
    1999,6,17.8
    1999,7,17.7
    1999,8,18.8
    1999,9,21.2
    1999,10,22.8
    1999,11,22.3
    1999,12,23.6
    2000,1,24.8
    2000,2,27.5
    2000,3,25.3
    2000,4,23.4
    2000,5,20.4
    2000,6,17.6
    2000,7,18.3
    2000,8,18.8
    2000,9,22.7
    2000,10,22.9
    2000,11,23.6
    2000,12,27.6
    2001,1,27.3
    2001,2,27.3
    2001,3,25.8
    2001,4,24
    2001,5,19.9
    2001,6,19.9
    2001,7,17.5
    2001,8,19.5
    2001,9,22.3
    2001,10,24
    2001,11,23.5
    2001,12,26.2
    2002,1,27.2
    2002,2,25.2
    2002,3,25.7
    2002,4,24.3
    2002,5,20.1
    2002,6,18.1
    2002,7,18.5
    2002,8,19.6
    2002,9,22.7
    2002,10,24.5
    2002,11,25.3
    2002,12,25.4
    2003,1,27.2
    2003,2,27.1
    2003,3,25.2
    2003,4,22.7
    2003,5,20.6
    2003,6,19.6
    2003,7,17.8
    2003,8,19.1
    2003,9,22.6
    2003,10,21.6
    2003,11,22.7
    2003,12,26
    2004,1,27.6
    2004,2,28.1
    2004,3,26.1
    2004,4,24.2
    2004,5,21.3
    2004,6,19.9
    2004,7,18
    2004,8,19.7
    2004,9,21.8
    2004,10,23.3
    2004,11,25.4
    2004,12,25.6
    2005,1,26.6
    2005,2,27.4
    2005,3,24.3
    2005,4,25.1
    2005,5,21.2
    2005,6,19.2
    2005,7,19
    2005,8,20
    2005,9,21
    2005,10,24.3
    2005,11,23.9
    2005,12,28.6
    2006,1,27
    2006,2,27.8
    2006,3,27.1
    2006,4,24.6
    2006,5,20.6
    2006,6,17
    2006,7,17.9
    2006,8,19.8
    2006,9,23.1
    2006,10,24.2
    2006,11,24.3
    2006,12,24.2
    2007,1,26.4
    2007,2,26
    2007,3,26.3
    2007,4,23
    2007,5,22.4
    2007,6,16.8
    2007,7,17.1
    2007,8,19.9
    2007,9,20.9
    2007,10,25
    2007,11,23.5
    2007,12,24.7
    2008,1,26
    2008,2,24.8
    2008,3,25.1
    2008,4,21.5
    2008,5,20.5
    2008,6,18.6
    2008,7,17.2
    2008,8,17.3
    2008,9,21.4
    2008,10,23.2
    2008,11,23.7
    2008,12,25.9

    ***************************************************
    Source: http://tinyurl.com/Sydney-MonthlyMax-Temps

  2. nanks
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:29 | #2

    Chris Warren :
    It looks like Copenhagen is a dressed-up calamity.
    huh?
    The 2003 and 2004 data is astonishing.

    why?

  3. Chris Warren
    December 19th, 2009 at 12:57 | #3

    nanks

    Did you even look at the 2003, 2004 data? This is no time for ignorant comments.

    Just click on the link – do some work – then if you really cannot see any issue, by all means ask for help.

    The average mean max temperature for these two peak years was 23 degrees.

  4. nanks
    December 19th, 2009 at 13:14 | #4

    of course i looked – I can’t see why they are particularly significant to the point of astonishing

  5. Chris Warren
    December 19th, 2009 at 13:23 | #5

    well if 23 becomes the new average, it marks a trend than if it continues takes Australia to 25 in a few decades, to 27 for next generation, and near 30 in the late in this century. It means Australia is cooked.

    Actually it could be that the 2003, 2004 data was an anomaly due possibly to the ozone hole.

    But if 2003/2004 represents a future new multi-year average – we are in deep trouble.

    The rate of acceleration experienced in the lead-up to 2003/2004 peaks would be unmanageable if it was maintained over a decade.

  6. nanks
    December 19th, 2009 at 13:32 | #6

    Sure I can see all that, but talking about 2003/4 is talking about weather rather than climate. Maybe it was just some cyclic thing or whatever. Not that I am optimistic re climate change – the news only seems to get worse

  7. Tin Tin
    December 19th, 2009 at 18:05 | #7
  8. Tin Tin
    December 19th, 2009 at 18:38 | #8
  9. Stretch
    December 19th, 2009 at 19:20 | #9

    @Tin Tin
    Wikipedia? You’re easily pleased.

  10. paul walter
    December 19th, 2009 at 19:40 | #10

    No Nanks, I see what he’s getting at. The summers in particular are much hotter on average than previously.

  11. Chris Warren
    December 19th, 2009 at 19:57 | #11

    Tin Tin

    (or is it dum dum?)

    Why don’t you get the other side of the argument and list the number of scientists supporting the mainstream view.

    Why don’t you get some data and do your own analysis.

    You seem a bit lost.

  12. nanks
    December 19th, 2009 at 22:37 | #12

    @paul walter
    my point though would be that it is not appropriate to cherry pick the data – even if all else is consistent re cyclic variation, measurement methods etc. That’s not the right thing to do when discussing trends in climate, which require longer time frames. It’s like saying 1998 was the hottest year therefore the climate is in a cooling phase – don’t allow that sort of talk either. Not meaning to be abusive in any way, just picky wrt climate as against weather.
    And we have no info on what other things might be affecting those two years – the ‘adjustment’ thing.

  13. Chris Warren
    December 20th, 2009 at 08:45 | #13

    nanks

    Where is there any cherry-picking of data?

    Your call for “longer time frames” is a provocation because if a warming trend is not observable over 100 years it is not likely to be significant.

    So we can use the data we have without listening to such pretend quibbles.

    If 1998 was hot and, for most following years, the temp was lower, then why wouldn’t you say the climate is in a cooling phase?

    The fact is that the Australian climate has warmed rapidly and the rate of increase suggests this is not a natural process. The data we have (150 years) corroborates the views of IPCC scientists.

  14. nanks
    December 20th, 2009 at 09:23 | #14

    I have no idea what you are on about Chris Warren wrt to my position on climate change – climate is measured over decades, you can’t just take a couple of years and say – look its hot (or cold) and then say climate is changing. Just because you are on the side of the angels re climate change doesn’t make it suddenly okay to cherry pick data. That plays into the hands of the denialists and there’s just no need to anyway.

  15. Paul Williams
    December 20th, 2009 at 10:27 | #15

    Chris Warren,

    There are a couple of well documented reasons that the temperature at Observatory Hill have risen. Nothing to do with “globull warming”.

    That is why the BoM excludes this station from “climate studies”.

    You didn’t just cherry pick a couple of years, you cherry picked the station!

    And on that basis you claim “Australia is cooked”? Alarmist “science” at it’s finest.

  16. Freelander
    December 20th, 2009 at 11:17 | #16

    The awarding of sainthood is an interesting process. The Pope has decided that someone who has had spontaneous remission from an inoperable lung cancer has experienced a miracle. Well, although unusual, remissions of this sort are hardly unknown so it is difficult to see why, in this case, it would be a miracle. Apparently the person prayed to MacKillop. But that she prayed to MacKillop is not what is claimed to be the miracle. But because the woman in addition to having remission also prayed to MacKillop, the Pope has attributed the miracle to MacKillop. Apparently attributing miracles to those other than God (or the devil) is not blasphemy. However, it does not follow, that even if it was a miracle, that MacKillop was responsible for it. But surely you need some better evidence of MacKillop’s responsibility for the miracle than the claim that the cancer-ridden woman had prayed to her? For all we know someone else could have done it. This third-party may even have done the ‘miracle’ accidentally without even noticing. Before ‘awarding’ the ‘miracle’ to MacKillop, surely these other possibilities should have been carefully investigated. I think the Pope is playing fast and loose with this ‘miracle’, ‘sainthood’ business. Fire and brimstone to follow…

  17. nanks
    December 20th, 2009 at 11:28 | #17

    @Freelander
    Surprising Freelander – I would have thought the Pope stuck pretty hard and fast to rules of evidence and causality :)

  18. Freelander
    December 20th, 2009 at 11:35 | #18

    @nanks
    I think we should try to help the Pope avoid making a mistake.
    I suggest that anyone who thinks they or someone else, living or dead, may be the real person this miracle should rightly be attributed to, contact “The Congregation of the Causes of Saints”, quickly, before the Pope makes one more embarrassing mistake!

  19. Chris Warren
    December 20th, 2009 at 11:36 | #19

    Paul

    Vague references to “well documented reasons” for X or Y do not impress me unless the reasons come with evidence.

    Suffice it to say, the urban heat effect is probably what you are trying to exploit.

    The urban heat effect largely affects minimum mean temperatures as it stores heat in buildings. However this will not affect mean maximums. I used “maximums” to avoid the urban heat effect.

    If you check the BOM website you will see the data is quality controlled and the BOM indicates were data is not quality controlled.

    The station was not cherry-picked, unless you can cite other stations with the same period of quality-controlled data and which produce different results. (Maybe Capetown?)

    It is now essential, for you, to do so – otherwise you have are just being provocative.

    Do you know what “cherry picking” actually means?

    Also I get fed up will misrepresentations. I did not say that Australia is cooked except in the case where the current warming trend continues to the end of this century (#5 above). Why did you delete this critical context? just to manufacture controversy?

  20. Freelander
    December 20th, 2009 at 11:39 | #20

    I really would not like to see the Pope forced to do a ‘defective saint’ recall, in relation to Mary MacKillop.

  21. Freelander
    December 20th, 2009 at 13:26 | #21

    @Chris Warren
    Chris, why don’t you just hop back down to safety in your warren, like a good little bunny, before we stew you some more in your own juices? Don’t worry your little cotton tail about climate change; there is nothing you can do. This is one problem that you won’t outbreed. Beware of the cherries; they will give you the pip.

  22. Paul Williams
    December 20th, 2009 at 14:33 | #22

    Chris, if you really don’t know the issues with Observatory Hill, do some work. If you can’t see the problem, by all means ask for help.

    If you check the BoM website you will see which sites are used for high quality, long term climate monitoring. If you can’t work it out, by all means ask for help.

    Observatory Hill is not used for climate change monitoring, therefore using a trend from it to suggest Australian temperatures will rise, if the trend at that station continues, is meaningless.

    Obviously it will get warmer if temperatures rise, but I fail to see how stating the bleeding obvious, using one inferior station as a reference, provides any useful information.

    As you were talking about Australian data and temperatures, I feel I should point out that Capetown is not in Australia.

  23. Chris Warren
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:07 | #23

    Paul

    Ranting won’t get you anywhere.

    Thank you for your information that Capetown is not in Australia.

  24. Alice
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:16 | #24

    @nanks
    Unfortunately Nanks….Chris is surrounded by denialists as we speak….we have Paul W here accusing Chris of suggesting “Australia is cooked” .
    Yes Paul Williams – you did and it was a misprepresentation of what Chris said. Chris was right to object. The point made by Paul W above about Capetown was also a completely irrelevant snark.

  25. Alice
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:25 | #25

    @Chris Warren
    Chris – I also see nothing wrong with your observation stated at one

    “Over 1876-1900 Sydney average temperatures were 1.5 degrees less than over 1984-2008.

    This is a very significant move.

    You may have erred raising 2003 and 2004 a significant, but I dont know what problems Paul W has with your first comment at 1 that I put in here in quotes. yet not one here critcising you has mentioned that statement. Perhaps Paul can also enlighten as to the reasons for problems with Observatory Hill seeing as he appears so knowing about it.

    And no, this is an open ended invitation to Tony G.

    Ill leave the AGW denialists with a little Voltaire Quote

    “those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you comitt atrocities.”

    One such atrocity recently occurred in this country on climate change policy and another has now occurred at Copenhagen.

  26. Alice
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:26 | #26

    And no, this is not an open ended invitation to Tony G

  27. paul walter
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:38 | #27

    We learn something new every day, when we blog.
    What an epiphany, to learn that Capetown is not in Australia!
    There are many more Africans, black and white, living in Australia nowadays, so one supposes the real clue involves the absence of Table Mountain?

  28. Fran Barlow
    December 20th, 2009 at 17:45 | #28

    I’d have been more impressed if someone had prayed to Mary McWhatsername for relief from abuse by priests and the hand of god had defrocked them and sent them scurrying for cover … that would have been a miracle, but for some reason, it either never occurred to anyone that they were being abused or god’s saint wasn’t listening.

  29. paul walter
    December 20th, 2009 at 23:11 | #29

    I’m no catholic, but from what I recall of reading about Mcwhatsername tells me she was principally a pastoral worker, who had to battle the Hierarchy interminably to see her social aid projects though.

  30. Freelander
    December 21st, 2009 at 00:43 | #30

    What is interesting is that Benedict might canonise her, given that he hails from the middle ages and in the middle ages they decided that women don’t have souls. This would make it difficult for her to have had an afterlife, and thus to confer miracles, and thus to become a saint. But, then, God moves in mysterious ways… Just ask a wretched altar boy….

  31. paul walter
    December 21st, 2009 at 01:27 | #31

    I hope you get a few nibbles on that one, freelander…

  32. Kevin Cox
    December 21st, 2009 at 04:07 | #32

    For various reasons (peak oil, economic development, climate change) we want to increase investment in ways to make more efficient use of energy and develop alternative sources of energy.

    We can increase investment by making our enterprise more profitable. This can be done by increasing the price of the product or reducing the cost of the product.

    The main cost of the output of an energy producing factory is the capital cost so if we reduced the financial cost of capital of energy producing factories we would get cheaper energy. Financial costs are repayments, interest, profits and taxes.

    We can reduce repayments by extending repayments over the life of the factory. We can reduce interest with zero interest loans.

    If we do this almost all forms of existing renewable energy production is profitable. Each year renewable energy will become more profitable as the price of the alternative – fossil fuel – increases and with the reduction in capital cost of renewables. History shows us that doubling the capacity of almost any technology results in a reduction of at least 15 to 20% in the capital cost per unit of output.

    The good thing about this approach to increasing investment in energy production is that it can start tomorrow, requires no injections of savings capital, will reduce the cost of energy, needs no international agreements – and we can be confident it will work.

    http://cscoxk.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/financing-renewable-energy-with-zero-interest-loans-2/ outlines the idea and shows a way to implement zero interest loans that fits within the existing banking and financial system.

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