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Monday Message Board

July 17th, 2012

Monday Message Board a day late. Post comments on any topic. As usual, civilised discussion and no coarse language. Lengthy side discussions to the sandpits, please.

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  1. Mel
    July 26th, 2012 at 20:10 | #1

    I think Malthusista has far too much time on his hands.

  2. Fran Barlow
    July 26th, 2012 at 20:23 | #2

    @birdy_Graham

    There’s never an excuse for running deficits. Deficits are just another bankers scam.

    True enough. Borrowing money is never justified. Personal loans, credit cards, mortgages, business loans, overdrafts — they are all scams. Neither a borrower nor a lender be, as Polonius so wisely warned.

    The telegraph South Australia borrowed money in the mid 19th century to fund? A disaster. The Harbour Bridge? The Snowy Scheme? Warragamba Dam? What were they all about? The idea of settling the burdens of infrastructure onto the shoulders of most of the beneficiaries is just a trick by the bankers to enrich their great grandchildren.

  3. July 26th, 2012 at 21:29 | #3

    Mel :
    I think Malthusista has far too much time on his hands.

    I wish.

    Mel, perhaps you could show me what in my last post was superfluous and needlessly verbose (as opposed to evidence and logic that adds understanding to the topic at hand)? That would help me to spend less time composing posts for this site and more on other tasks at hand.

  4. July 26th, 2012 at 21:35 | #4

    (attempt to make link work properly, this time)

    Mel :
    I think Malthusista has far too much time on his hands.

    I wish.

    Mel, perhaps you could show me what in my last post was superfluous and needlessly verbose (as opposed to evidence and logic that adds understanding to the topic at hand)? That would help me to spend less time composing posts for this site and more on other tasks at hand.

  5. July 27th, 2012 at 00:09 | #5

    I wouldn’t worry too much about Mel.

  6. Graeme Bird
    July 27th, 2012 at 17:03 | #6

    Excellence in banking is by its nature paternalistic. This is something that libertarians don’t understand and in fact they get in the way of understanding. If a nation is to prosper, most of its loanable funds must go to business renovation and/or machinery that makes us more productive. A car loan would meet that criteria if 1. Tax free thresholds were much higher. 2. Serious congestion charges were in place and 3. Land ownership implied set-asides for land substitutes (a sort of better Georgism.)

    Neoclassicals, being personally ignorant, not observant, and confusing their models with reality ….. are in the persistent habit of confusing private debt with investment and therefore wealth creation. But look at where the bankers send loanable funds? Whereas in the models, bankers take the resources of deferred consumption, and with the alchemy of capitalism, turn it into “gold” (that is to say WEALTH) ….. In the reality of 2012, bankers are taking real resources and turning them into rubbish. They take gold and turn it into crap.

    So we get all these funds for house-flipping, with minimal renovation going on. DON’T OVER-CAPITALISE YOUR PROPERTY warns the real estate investor. You want the crappiest house on the best street they say. So the rich slobs capitalising THEIR houses …. well you surf off them. We get all these funds chasing asset grabs generally. Takeovers. Consumer finance. No-ones minding the store. Operations improvement is like a second class undertaking, and preferably to be outsourced to non-whites, in this view of things.

    So neoclassicals guide us into a rat-race of private debt. Which leads to public debt since it leads to economic dysfunction and falling tax revenues. Keynesians guide us to public debt, but in 2012, at least I can find SOME Keynesians who are rounded in their education and have a sharp eye for current events.

    The incurring of debt is NOT investment. Its not wealth-creation.

    An extreme example of the wealth creation that can be achieved if a country forces its banks to lend for the purpose of business renovation happened in South Korea in the 70′s. This in the midst of economic doldrums most everywhere else. Before the dictator was assassinated he forced pretty much every available dollar to go to business renovation. The result being (measured in USD) that the South Korean GDP grew 5 TIMES IN 7 YEARS.

    This was extreme and it is true that the USD fell during that time. But this is what can be achieved if bankers are forced to make wealth-creating loans.

    But ought not the conditions be available where bankers will VOLUNTARILY make good business loans just to stay competitive?

    Well the answer is yes. That would be better. We need growth-deflation, more money then debt, various other reforms to do with land-ownership and congestion taxes. And we would need about thirty years I think.

    So during that thirty years I would rather support some of the ideas I see Professor Quiggin fielding to do with chartering a State-Owned bank. Or perhaps letting these incompetent fools collapse and buying them out. Because the “sun will set to the east of Casablanca in a blazing red sky” before our current crop of bankers will turn their hand to serious wealth creation.

  7. Graeme Bird
    July 27th, 2012 at 17:32 | #7

    “The telegraph South Australia borrowed money in the mid 19th century to fund? A disaster. The Harbour Bridge? The Snowy Scheme? Warragamba Dam? What were they all about?”

    They were all about bad budgeting. Since they enabled more spending on rubbish then what would otherwise have been politically feasible. And the deficits are one reason that we have today lost our infrastructural momentum.

    The infrastructure should go ahead without a banker in sight. No bankers need apply to advise the government on wealth-creation. For one thing they are not qualified. For another their a bunch of charlatans.

    When we pay for infrastructure out of taxes, the political will ought more plausibly be found to take down needless departments in order to meet these costs. Here I’m not talking about heartlessly cutting off pensions, or being tight on necessary functions, when some largesse is to be expected in order to do things right. Its better to cut out whole departments clean.

    What has ABARE done for us lately and what justifies it being open one more day? They’ve hardly stopped the sell-off of all these resources they are supposed to be advising us about. They are useless, and we find that we have hundreds of equally useless government departments, that can be axed to send us awash in infrastructure dollars.

  8. may
    July 28th, 2012 at 15:37 | #8

    was it the spanish bull?

  9. Fran Barlow
    July 29th, 2012 at 09:20 | #9

    This is amusing … Climate delusionism cops a swift kick where it hurts most …

    Bombshell: Koch-Funded Study Finds ‘Global Warming Is Real’, ‘On The High End’ And ‘Essentially All’ Due To Carbon Pollution

    Speaking of the climate ‘skeptic’ Muller, Ken Caldeira remarks:

    I am glad that Muller et al have taken a look at the data and have come to essentially the same conclusion that nearly everyone else had come to more than a decade ago.

    The basic scientific results have been established for a long time now, so I do not see the results of Muller et al as being scientifically important. However, their result may be politically important. It shows that even people who suspect climate scientists of being charlatans, when they take a hard look at the data, see that the climate scientists have been right all along.

    The single biggest funder of this study was the aggressive filth merchant lobby activist group and Tea Party founder, the Koch Brothers.

  10. Bring back Birdy at Catallaxy
    July 29th, 2012 at 11:22 | #10

    Fran, you beat me to it! Here’s another link on the same topic.

    http://www.climatecodered.org/​2012/07/​the-conversion-of-climate-chang​e-skeptic.html

  11. Fran Barlow
    July 29th, 2012 at 11:49 | #11

    @Bring back Birdy at Catallaxy

    “Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist. ” …

  12. BilB
    July 29th, 2012 at 19:15 | #12

    Here is a great article by Nate Hagens on comparative agricultural yields

    http://www.theoildrum.com/pdf/theoildrum_9358.pdf

    For my thinking articles such as this, which abound in the US, give some indication on how connected the “real” US people are on climate change and adaption. Did anyone pickup on what is happening with Arctic and Greenland ice cover this Summer?

    Here is a question for you’all. “How much energy is enough”? How much energy do you need to live a comfortable life with most of the freedoms that you currently enjoy (Commercial Air Travel excluded)?

  13. Mel
    July 29th, 2012 at 19:59 | #13

    @Megan

    Wow, Megan, that chip on your shoulder is almost as large as the gap in your fluoride eroded teeth.

    You’re upset because I pulled the plug on your nutbag fluoride propaganda. How about having the good grace to politely admit you’ve made an utter goose of yourself then moving forward?

  14. Mel
    July 29th, 2012 at 22:10 | #14

    Malthusista:

    “Mel, perhaps you could show me what in my last post was superfluous and needlessly verbose.”

    You’ve been spending far too much time on Meganesque anti-fluoride websites like Global Research. Verbose is not the descriptor I would use.

    Anyway, each to his own I suppose.

  15. July 29th, 2012 at 23:05 | #15

    German intelligence: al-Qaeda all over Syria

    by John Rosenthal, 29 July 2002

    German intelligence estimates that “around 90″ terror attacks that “can be attributed to organizations that are close to al-Qaeda or jihadist groups” were carried out in Syria between the end of December and the beginning of July, as reported by the German daily Die Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ). This was revealed by the German government in a response to a parliamentary question.

    In response to the same question, the German government admitted that it had received several reports from the German foreign intelligence service, the BND, on the May 25 massacre in the Syrian town of Houla. But it noted that the content of these reports was to remain classified “by reason of national interest”, Like many other Western governments, Germany (and Australia – malthusista) expelled Syria’s ambassador in the immediate aftermath of the massacre, holding the Syrian government responsible for the violence.

  16. Bring back Birdy at Catallaxy
    July 30th, 2012 at 06:35 | #16

    Thanks, Fran @11/161. Your link contained everything that needed to be read anyway.

  17. Bring back Birdy at Catallaxy
    July 30th, 2012 at 06:38 | #17

    Just had a look at Catallaxy and learned that the Communists have taken over the ALP and the Olympic Games, Judith Sloan thinks the Australian athletes are scruffy, and Catallaxy has outsourced its climate policy commentary to the Liberal Party. Intellectual mountain scenery, not.

  18. Mel
    July 30th, 2012 at 12:55 | #18

    ” … and Catallaxy has outsourced its climate policy commentary to the Liberal Party. ”

    And the J0hn B|rch Society, which Rafe has linked to as an authoritative source.

  19. Katz
    July 31st, 2012 at 08:03 | #19

    A prediction: James Ashby will come to envy Godwin Grech.

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