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	<title>Comments for John Quiggin</title>
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	<link>http://johnquiggin.com</link>
	<description>Commentary on Australian &#38; world events from a social-democratic perspective</description>
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		<title>Comment on Gullible-gate by Chris O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/19/gullible-gate/comment-page-2/#comment-170174</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnquiggin.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=10421#comment-170174</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-170077&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@TerjeP &lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m not sure why it is a sin to be well funded and coordinate&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A bit like saying, I’m not sure why it is a sin for crime to be well funded and coordinated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-170077" rel="nofollow">@TerjeP </a> </p>
<blockquote><p>I’m not sure why it is a sin to be well funded and coordinate</p></blockquote>
<p>A bit like saying, I’m not sure why it is a sin for crime to be well funded and coordinated.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Ram</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnquiggin.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=10429#comment-170173</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m enjoying the show from afar. Does this kind of salient intra-party power struggle happen often in Oz?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m enjoying the show from afar. Does this kind of salient intra-party power struggle happen often in Oz?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gullible-gate by Stephen Luntz</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/19/gullible-gate/comment-page-2/#comment-170171</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Luntz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnquiggin.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=10421#comment-170171</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to derail this thread any further, but feel compelled to point out that Mel&#039;s description of the Vic Greens position on fluoride is out of date. About two years ago that clause was removed from our policies, over the anguished screams of about five anti-fluridationists (some of whom promptly left the party). To do so required a 75% vote of state council, and from memory it passed fairly comfortably. No explicitly pro-flouride policy was inserted to replace it, but had anyone proposed one I think it would have passed.

I have met a couple of anti-vaccinators in the party, but the fact is they&#039;re a tiny minority. Cranks can get control of small branches, but I there&#039;s no support on these issues from the party&#039;s MPs. Rather different from the Republicans or Liberals on AGW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to derail this thread any further, but feel compelled to point out that Mel&#8217;s description of the Vic Greens position on fluoride is out of date. About two years ago that clause was removed from our policies, over the anguished screams of about five anti-fluridationists (some of whom promptly left the party). To do so required a 75% vote of state council, and from memory it passed fairly comfortably. No explicitly pro-flouride policy was inserted to replace it, but had anyone proposed one I think it would have passed.</p>
<p>I have met a couple of anti-vaccinators in the party, but the fact is they&#8217;re a tiny minority. Cranks can get control of small branches, but I there&#8217;s no support on these issues from the party&#8217;s MPs. Rather different from the Republicans or Liberals on AGW.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Alan</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170170</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see no prospect of an early election. Rudd would have to renegotiate the government and may well lose Windsor. He would gain Wilkie and probably Katter. The Greens, Slipper and Oakeshott are not going anywhere. 

The pro-Gillard argument seems to be a weird mix of Kevin&#039;s a psychopath and aprés moi le déluge. What makes that really, really strange is that this genius of implementation manages to score a whole lot of own goals while pursuing a deeply conservative agenda and she is facing electoral oblivion. I do not think Rudd had much to do with the reshuffle, the Australia Day disaster or knifing Wilkie but I may of course be underestimating his deviousness.

The reality is that Gillard will either massively improve her electoral standing or she will not lead the ALP at the next election. The leadership contest is not being driven by poloticking, which politicians tend to do, but by the abysmal electoral prospects. 

The fairly public knifing (re-knifing?) of Rudd is not going to do anything much to persuade the electorate that Gillard is actually a warm and friendly person who is just misunderstood. Despite the chants of &#039;resolution ! resolution!&#039; the caucus ballot will resolve nothing unless the polls start shifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see no prospect of an early election. Rudd would have to renegotiate the government and may well lose Windsor. He would gain Wilkie and probably Katter. The Greens, Slipper and Oakeshott are not going anywhere. </p>
<p>The pro-Gillard argument seems to be a weird mix of Kevin&#8217;s a psychopath and aprés moi le déluge. What makes that really, really strange is that this genius of implementation manages to score a whole lot of own goals while pursuing a deeply conservative agenda and she is facing electoral oblivion. I do not think Rudd had much to do with the reshuffle, the Australia Day disaster or knifing Wilkie but I may of course be underestimating his deviousness.</p>
<p>The reality is that Gillard will either massively improve her electoral standing or she will not lead the ALP at the next election. The leadership contest is not being driven by poloticking, which politicians tend to do, but by the abysmal electoral prospects. </p>
<p>The fairly public knifing (re-knifing?) of Rudd is not going to do anything much to persuade the electorate that Gillard is actually a warm and friendly person who is just misunderstood. Despite the chants of &#8216;resolution ! resolution!&#8217; the caucus ballot will resolve nothing unless the polls start shifting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by James</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170169</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnquiggin.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=10429#comment-170169</guid>
		<description>Yes, but I think with the Prof if may just be a Qld thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but I think with the Prof if may just be a Qld thing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Sam</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170168</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One further point:
A leadership change would probably mean an early election, which would probably mean an Abbott victory.  The one chance the carbon tax has of not being repealed is if the government goes full term.  If it&#039;s already been implemented for a year and the sky has conspicuously failed to fall, Abbott might find it difficult to give up the revenue.  Otherwise, he&#039;d be politically bound to kill it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One further point:<br />
A leadership change would probably mean an early election, which would probably mean an Abbott victory.  The one chance the carbon tax has of not being repealed is if the government goes full term.  If it&#8217;s already been implemented for a year and the sky has conspicuously failed to fall, Abbott might find it difficult to give up the revenue.  Otherwise, he&#8217;d be politically bound to kill it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Sam</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170166</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m with Gillard wholeheartedly.

  Rudd&#039;s Big Australia stance alone makes him totally unsuitable.  This ideology would destroy every gain the Australian environmental movement has ever made and then some.  It is the single worst influential idea in Australia today.  Furthermore, I think Rudd is a duplicitous psychopath.  He&#039;s undermined the government at every opportunity with leaks and innuendo, risking the last election for the sake of his own ego.  He was a pretty average prime minister, and is a truly awful man.  Gillard on the other hand has been consistently able to achieve the big policy goals that Rudd never could.  Perhaps she lacks imagination, but she gets results.

On the politics side, it&#039;s totally naive to believe the current polling preference for Rudd would persist after a leadership change.  The taint of &quot;New South Wales disease&quot; would hang over federal Labor even more than it does now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Gillard wholeheartedly.</p>
<p>  Rudd&#8217;s Big Australia stance alone makes him totally unsuitable.  This ideology would destroy every gain the Australian environmental movement has ever made and then some.  It is the single worst influential idea in Australia today.  Furthermore, I think Rudd is a duplicitous psychopath.  He&#8217;s undermined the government at every opportunity with leaks and innuendo, risking the last election for the sake of his own ego.  He was a pretty average prime minister, and is a truly awful man.  Gillard on the other hand has been consistently able to achieve the big policy goals that Rudd never could.  Perhaps she lacks imagination, but she gets results.</p>
<p>On the politics side, it&#8217;s totally naive to believe the current polling preference for Rudd would persist after a leadership change.  The taint of &#8220;New South Wales disease&#8221; would hang over federal Labor even more than it does now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Happy Heyoka</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170165</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy Heyoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rudd may well be a visionary, but ultimately the job is about getting compromises made and legislation passed.  For all her faults, Gillard seems to be capable of that.

As someone who might be considered a natural Labor voter, their factional squabbles and dodgey pre-selection habits have stopped me voting for them for the last three or for federal elections.
How they manage to shoot themselves in the same foot over and over is beyond belief...

The coalition (for the most part) seem to have been experiencing the same reality bypass as their US counterparts for a similar period.  Maybe they just have the same lobbyists?

I&#039;d vote for the levitating yogis over any of them, but the Greens and whatever independents are going locally are the &quot;least worst&quot; alternative... I&#039;m kind of hoping the next federal election is similar to the last and we get a plurality of views rather than a landslide to either of the big two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudd may well be a visionary, but ultimately the job is about getting compromises made and legislation passed.  For all her faults, Gillard seems to be capable of that.</p>
<p>As someone who might be considered a natural Labor voter, their factional squabbles and dodgey pre-selection habits have stopped me voting for them for the last three or for federal elections.<br />
How they manage to shoot themselves in the same foot over and over is beyond belief&#8230;</p>
<p>The coalition (for the most part) seem to have been experiencing the same reality bypass as their US counterparts for a similar period.  Maybe they just have the same lobbyists?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d vote for the levitating yogis over any of them, but the Greens and whatever independents are going locally are the &#8220;least worst&#8221; alternative&#8230; I&#8217;m kind of hoping the next federal election is similar to the last and we get a plurality of views rather than a landslide to either of the big two.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by Stephen Luntz</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170163</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Luntz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that  Rudd does have some real and positive goals, far more than Gillard. However, the capacity to work with others matters at any time, and far more so in the current environment. Consequently I am a bit torn. Looking at the views of those I respect (both within and outside the Labor Party) the only endorsements of Rudd amongst those I trust are yours and John Falkner&#039;s. On the other hand there are plenty of people I respect backing Gillard.

Moreover, most of the worst Labor MPs are listed in the newspapers as Rudd supporters, so for the moment at least I&#039;ll be hoping for Gillard. Either way, I hope the outcome is convincing enough that we can move on from this rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that  Rudd does have some real and positive goals, far more than Gillard. However, the capacity to work with others matters at any time, and far more so in the current environment. Consequently I am a bit torn. Looking at the views of those I respect (both within and outside the Labor Party) the only endorsements of Rudd amongst those I trust are yours and John Falkner&#8217;s. On the other hand there are plenty of people I respect backing Gillard.</p>
<p>Moreover, most of the worst Labor MPs are listed in the newspapers as Rudd supporters, so for the moment at least I&#8217;ll be hoping for Gillard. Either way, I hope the outcome is convincing enough that we can move on from this rubbish.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s on by sjk</title>
		<link>http://johnquiggin.com/2012/02/22/its-on-2/comment-page-1/#comment-170159</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 12:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnquiggin.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=10429#comment-170159</guid>
		<description>Hmmm ... the set of status quo conservatives is a subset of all conservatives, and currently excludes the reactionary conservative Abbott. I&#039;m surprised I have to explain this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm &#8230; the set of status quo conservatives is a subset of all conservatives, and currently excludes the reactionary conservative Abbott. I&#8217;m surprised I have to explain this.</p>
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