32 thoughts on “US insurrection open thread

  1. I wonder what the partners of Australia’s judges are up to??? And politicians partners too.^**^

    “JURISPRUDENCE
    Ginni Thomas, Wife of Clarence, Cheered On the Rally That Turned Into the Capitol Riot“
    GOD BLESS EACH OF YOU STANDING UP or PRAYING!”

    By MARK JOSEPH STERN
    JAN 08, 2021

    “On Wednesday morning, Ginni Thomas—wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas—endorsed the rally in Washington demanding that Congress overturn the election. She then sent her “LOVE” to the demonstrators, who violently overtook the Capitol several hours later. Two days later, Thomas amended her post with the addendum: “[Note: written before violence in US Capitol].” By that point, five people involved in the insurrection, including a Capitol Police officer, had died.” …

    “In turn, Trump has rewarded Thomas with an extraordinary amount of access to the Oval Office. Her advocacy group Groundswell got an audience with the president in early 2019. According to the New York Times, the meeting was arranged after Clarence and Ginni Thomas had dinner with the Trumps. (Clarence Thomas and Trump appear to be quite friendly: The justice took his clerks to meet with the president in the Oval Office at least once; Ginni attended as well.) At the White House, Groundswell’s members lobbied Trump against transgender service in the military, which he already prohibited in 2017. The ban took effect in 2019, around the time of Groundswell’s meeting, after the Supreme Court lifted lower court orders blocking it by a 5–4 vote. (Clarence Thomas did not recuse himself from the case; he has never recused from any case because of his wife’s lobbying activities.) The New York Times also reported that Ginni Thomas compiled lists of federal employees whom she deemed insufficiently loyal to the president. She sent her lists to Trump, urging him to fire the disloyal employees, though he seems to have largely ignored her. He has, however,stacked his administration with former Thomas clerks.”
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/ginni-thomas-donald-trump-clarence-thomas-capitol-riot.html

    https://mobile.twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1347395084527017985

    ^**^
    “So who is behind Reignite Democracy? “Sack Dan” was not Smit’s first foray into political campaigning against Andrews. In May 2020 she and another “freelance journalist”, Stephanie Bastiaan, worked together on videos for Victoria Forward, an online organisation that claims to be bipartisan but whose primary purpose appears to be attacking Andrews.

    “Stephanie Bastiaan is married to the former Victorian Liberal party operative Marcus Bastiaan and was employed in federal MP Michael Sukkar’s office as an electorate officer. But after Nine Media aired allegations of branch stacking linked to Marcus Bastiaan and Sukkar, Marcus Bastiaan was forced to resign from the Liberals. Sukkar survived the incident. Both Sukkar and Bastiaan denied the allegations.

    “As Cam Wilson revealed on news website Gizmodo, Victoria Forward founder Edward Bourke is a vice-president of the Liberal party’s Sunbury branch and also a wannabe political operative. While he claims Victoria Forward is bipartisan, he describes himself as personally conservative.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/10/how-an-anti-mask-firebrand-fans-the-rights-flames-against-dan-andrews-online

  2. akarog, it shouldn’t matter a dot. But in the real world – they share a bed, breakfast & dinner table, and inside info too, with a supreme court judge, direct from potus. Ok with you?

  3. Nothing new… I have been sent Greenwald saying not much to see here, a rebuttal, Arnie S saying it is akin to kristallnacht. But private entities and the social media darlings of capitalism are private. So if 10k persons [hearsay] leaving twitter per day after banning the letters DT & Q, it is twitters perogative, and the setup of such ‘private’ entities & laws. Repubs and ‘liberals’ and the ‘letters’, feel free setup your own. Call it trumpitter(TM). Icon – half a wing. Trump/ist in a pit of his own. I will then know what not to click on. See how long it lasts with ‘free’ speech and how many it would cancel. Hurt people hurt people.

    “Everything pundits are getting wrong about this current moment in content moderation: An ongoing list

    …” First of all, the only “precedent” set here is that this is indeed the first time a sitting US president has been deplatformed by a tech company. I suppose that if your entire worldview is what happens in the United States, you might be surprised. But were you took outside that narrow lens, you would see that Facebook has booted off Lebanese politicians, Burmese generals, and even other right-wing US politicians…nevermind the millions of others who have been booted by these platforms, often without cause, often while engaging in protected speech under any definition.

    “2020 alone saw the (wrongful, even in light of platform policies) deplatforming of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people using terms related to Iran (including a Los Angeles-based crafter’s “Persian dolls” by Etsy) in an overzealous effort by companies to comply with sanctions; the booting of Palestinian speakers from Zoom on incorrectly-analyzed legal grounds; the deplatforming by Twitter of dozens of leftist Jews and Palestinians for clapping back at harassers, and so much more.

    2. “This is the biggest online purge in history!””

    4. “This is communism!”

    “Uh no, this is capitalism. Platforms have this much power because unbridled American capitalism is what y’all wanted. It is also not “Orwellian,” I can assure you.

    “5. “The Google Play store/Apple store booting Parler sets new precedent.”

    Uh actually, no it doesn’t.”

     https://jilliancyork.com/2021/01/10/everything-pundits-are-getting-wrong-about-this-moment-in-platform-regulation-an-ongoing-list/
    ****

    And Australia?
    Dave Sharma under the thumb of Morrison,  McCormack – and Christensen – “However, he later clarified he was not proposing a new body be established.” Weasel may be an appropriate descriptor.

    “Twitter’s decision to ban Donald Trump breaks open political divide in Australia

    “But Mr McCormack — acting for Scott Morrison as Australian leader this week — disagreed with the decision.

    “Well, I don’t believe in that sort of censorship,” he said.

    “There’s been a lot of people who have said and done a lot of things on Twitter previously that haven’t received that sort of condemnation or indeed censorship, but again, I’m not one who believes in that sort of censorship.”

    “He said the decision was a matter for Twitter.

    “It follows comments over the weekend from Liberal backbencher Dave Sharma, who described the decision to ban Mr Trump as the “right decision on the facts”, but said he was uncomfortable with “the precedent of big tech making decisions about whose speech, and which remarks, are censored and suppressed.”

    “Such decisions should be taken by a publicly accountable body, on a basis of transparent reasoning and principles,” he said.

    “However, he later clarified he was not proposing a new body be established.”…
    https://abc.net.au/news/2021-01-11/twitter-censorship-donald-trump-australia/13046656

    I now want ABCC exounged, and an independent body to rule on such, be run via federal govt, only retired judges as head, with Nic Gruen to supply jury. Any takers or suggestions?

  4. KT2

    You are indulging in fanciful speculation.

    On Trump, the Conways hold contrasting viewpoints – being married or whatever does not necessarily mean that you surrender your autonomy.

  5. Was it an attempted coup (that failed from typical Trump incompetence) or an uncoordinated fascist-anarchist riot? Business Insider spoke to senior French security officials who say coup: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1 Against this, there were few visible signs of coordination of the rioters inside the building (tactical radios, guns, masks). Above all, it’s difficult to construct a theory of taking power that could have informed a coup plan. They interrupted the congressional certification of the Electoral College votes, but that’s purely ceremonial: the votes are a matter of public record and in an emergency the inauguration could go ahead without it. All the inauguration needs is the Chief Justice and a Bible, like a marriage. Kidnap Roberts, and another SCOTUS justice takes over. Kidnap all of them, and any federal judge steps in. The key thing is the willingness of the Secret Service – backed up by the FBI and the Army — to secure the White House, escort tke new President in, and expel trespassers. There is little reason to doubt this.

    We will find out more from the court cases. But my money is on chaos not plan.

    The Bible can be another holy book, though in law it’s optional. The House of Commons keeps an interesting selection, including a Bible in Welsh. https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/commons/executive/commons-briefing-note-3-swearing-in.pdf

  6. PS: Westminster MPs can take the oath in Cornish, a language which has no native speakers. After they have done so in English, of course.

  7. I think it was an attempted coup but by highly incompetent people. Trump had made no secret of his claim that the election was fraudulent and that he intended to stay in power by any means. He and his family have been inciting people to fight up to and including at the last rally where his supporters gathered and then marched on the Capitol. However, as James Wimberley has pointed out, they had no theory, no manifesto, no tactics, no strategy, no serious weapons, no communications, no coordination, no command and control.

    Trump and his supporters live in an echo chamber. That echo chamber is more or less hermetically sealed against all other reality. They didn’t understand the levers of power in the US or how to grab them. They needed oligarchic backing, media backing and police, national guard and army backing which meant commanders in all those areas ready to do Trump’s bidding.

    Trump had and has no idea of what it takes to turn a modern country. Hitler had 3,000,000 Sturmabteilung (brownshirts) in 1933; an illegal paramilitary force, uniformed and capable of tactics Trump’s supporters could only dream of. The population of Germany in 1933 was 66 million in round numbers. Since the population of the USA is 333 million, Trump needed about 15 million proudshirts across the country, uniformed and organized on paramilitary lines. Then they had to hold their own version of Kristallnacht and so on and so on.

    Of course, not every coup need follow that precise model but control of a mass paramilitary and of mass organized and armed insurrectionists would seem to be a minimal condition. Then sympathizers among the oligarchs (it is capitalism after all) and turned top commanders in the secret service, national guard and army would also seem to be necessary. Parliamentary control is necessary too. Hitler went “legit” and got control of the national governance apparatus. Trump needed to win the election and both houses and then subvert it while being ready with 15 million proudshirts who would later be purged. Trump failed at the first hurdle as he had nothing in place for a real coup. And then almost straightaway dumped on the proud-shirts and betrayed them.

  8. **”Just tell economically struggling whites that blacks, Muslims, and immigrants are coming to impose socialism”….

    **”The Truth About Trump’s Mob

    Jan 8, 2021
    JEFFREY D. SACHS

    “The storming of the US Capitol by predominantly white supporters of President Donald Trump was in keeping with a long tradition of mob violence directed by white elites in the service of their own interests. The difference this time is that the rioters turned on their own.
    ….
    “Stoking mob violence against people of color is typically how rich whites channel poor whites’ grievances away from themselves. Far from being a specifically Trumpian tactic, it is the oldest trick in the American political playbook. Want to pass a regressive tax cut for the rich? Just tell economically struggling whites that blacks, Muslims, and immigrants are coming to impose socialism.”
    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trump-mob-capitol-familiar-scene-of-white-mob-violence-by-jeffrey-d-sachs-2021-01

    The word ‘socialism’ seems toxic and it also used to incite these rioters. One seen in news of riot had a poster with just the word ‘socialism” hand scrawled on black, with a red circle and slash through the word socialism. A substitue word or phrase ala ‘nice-ism’. Fairism. ImOKsoIwill-sharism. Putting democratic in front of socialism won’t cut through.

  9. Was it an attempted coup (that failed from typical Trump incompetence) or an uncoordinated fascist-anarchist riot?

    You left out the possibility that it was both.There’s no reason it couldn’t be both.

    … there were few visible signs of coordination of the rioters … it’s difficult to construct a theory of taking power that could have informed a coup plan … my money is on chaos not plan …

    It’s possible for there to be such a thing as a coup attempt which is poorly coordinated, misconceived, badly planned, and chaotic. Even if it’s poorly coordinated, misconceived, badly planned, and chaotic, that doesn’t prove that it’s not a coup attempt.

  10. poor old socialism.

    commie union of soviet socialist republics on the extreme left (no god) and

    nazi/fascist national socialists on the extreme right lots of god)

    both went for education, healthcare and infrastructure.
    ( a grievous horrifying pity about the rest)

    is it at all possible to dispense with left and right?

  11. May, if you said “is it at all possible to dispense with left and right?” in the wrong place and time, you’d be accused of sedition.

    Je sui May.

  12. is it at all possible to dispense with left and right?

    I vaguely recall reading accounts of people who have suffered strokes, or perhaps some other kind of neurological disorder, and who as a result have lost the concept of ‘left’ (or it may have been that they lost the concept of ‘right’, or it may have been one in some cases and the other in other cases). A patient with no left, for example, might not be able to register the presence of objects to the left of them, might be unable to turn to the left, or might be unable to lie in bed with the left side uppermost.

    I would say it was a serious disadvantage. I’m not sure why anybody would think differently.

  13. It was absolutely an attempted coup. In almost any other democratic country the president would now be under arrest.

    There are a number of disturbing features:

    1. It’s been 4 days and there’s been no press conference by any federal agency explaining what just happened.

    2. The first request to the Pentagon for assistance was at 1:34. The first Pentagon-controlled units arrived at 5:40.

    3. A scratch force of riot police and others from the Metropolitan Police Department, the department of homeland security, the department of justice, the FBI and the Virginia National Guard began clapping out the insurrectionists at around 4:00.The scratch force was put together without approval from the White House.

    4. The governor of Maryland repeatedly sought and was refused permission by the Pentagon to despatch Maryland National Guard. The governor of Virginia just sent them to Washington and then talked to the Pentagon.

    5. The Capitol Police just happened to have made no special arrangements for what they knew would be a large and volatile protest.

    6. The Pentagon just happened to take over 4 hours to intervene when all members of the line of succession who are not Trump loyalists were at grave risk at the capitol.

    7. Trump is reported to have been ‘delighted’, ‘giddy’, ‘excited’ by the insurrection. He is also reported to have told people at the White House that he would be president past 20 January.

    8. During the insurrection Giuliani was ringing Republican senators asking then to find a way to delay the election declaration as long as possible.

    This could have had an entirely different result if the insurrection had captured or even killed large numbers of members of congress, as some of them were planning and had come equipped to do, Trump could have declared martial law. The QAnon delusion includes an event called The Storm where Trump suspends the constitution and executes large numbers of Democratic leaders, Hollywood notables, journalists and others. They were chanting Hang Mike Pence inside the capitol.

    Schwarzenegger, who I don’t think I’ve ever quoted before, was quite right to describe this as an attempt at Kristallnacht.

  14. KT2?

    sheesh! in just about any historical time and place among the local “true believers”,
    i would have had to keep my head well and truly down or face any one of a myriad of “culturally approved” results.
    (and i suspect on quite a lot of blogs,i wouldn’t be the only one.)

    you can wait til the cows come home for “end times” but psychopaths and hungry gutted bastards (practising bastardry) are born into every generation(and culture!)

  15. nolsralo said “Schwarzenegger, who I don’t think I’ve ever quoted before, was quite right to describe this as an attempt at Kristallnacht.”

    This was said by a US Dem Senator in 2009…
    “One of their own members, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.) had just delivered an overwrought jeremiad comparing the Republicans to Nazis on Kristallnacht, lynch mobs of the South, and bloodthirsty crowds of the French Revolution”. https://johnquiggin.com/2021/01/11/monday-message-board-492/comment-page-1/#comment-232846

  16. night of the broken glass…….

    more like the October revolution in 1917.

    they asked “what must be done’? and did it.

  17. There is a joke flying around: This year due to the border closures caused by the pandemic, Americans have been unable to incite violence and coup in other countries, therefore they took it upon themselves to do it at home.

  18. Accomplices in the House?

    All of this needs to be investigated of course. The ultimate danger is if Trump loyalists have infiltrated and taken control of the 30,000 troops now guarding the Capitol. This seems highly unlikely. However, if they have done so, they could take (execute?) everyone in the capitol area on a given day.

    Hopefully, that is completely unlikely. Trump and his supporters seem far too inept to have achieved that.

  19. This news bypassed me for a few days:

    MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

    Click to access JCS%20Message%20to%20the%20Joint%20Force%20Riots.pdf

    This is an unambiguous statement that the US Military WILL abide by the Constitution and Biden WILL become the 46th President. I suspect that WILL happen. (Emphasis added.)

    Also:

    “Trump backers lose millions as big-name donors walk away after ‘insurrection'” – ABC.

    Trump’s backers in Congress and Senate look like they will lose all PAC donor support. Of ocurse, in a democracy all that should really count is the will of the people. But we know in the US, the will of rich counts big-time.

    The end of the Republican Party? We can only hope. They are certainly totally “on the nose” now.

  20. There were some significant shots across Trump’s bow, the above letter from the Generals and the previous letter from former Defence Secretaries. Combined, the message to the active military was to put your political allegiances aside and remember your oath

    There must have been sufficient evidence of insurrection within the services for these people to step out and up.

  21. It was always Steve Bannons objective to wreck the joint and Trump, by using his allies in the disaffiliated, gave it a go.

    Had the troops* succeeded in their invasion of the Capitol, taken Pence as hostage and strung a few politicians up from their ready made scaffolds, then it would have been a disaster and the repercussions brutal and final.

    But as it turned out, Trump retires to his Florida joint to work harden his hate while the troops* do their own research.

    *motley crew

  22. American Carnage. Is anybody used to so much winning yet?

    It is rather sad seeing the case fatality rate in America, while on a par of the CFR around the world, unfortunately is on the back of the highest number of infections in the world, making for the highest Covid-19 deaths in the world for a given country. What a spectacular goal for T’s reign. I am not engaging in Schadenfreude, but simply pointing out the reality. Fact is, T killed a heck of a lot of Americans, through resolutely doing the opposite of what was required of a leader of a nation.

    He funded a small portion of the research and development of a vaccine or two; well, good. That’s about as far as the funding extended, with respect to technology. When it came to things that mattered in during the wait for vaccines, it was a classic case of T doing or saying one thing, only to contradict it in the next breath. Quite frankly, the best way to assess T’s performance is to look back at the real-time news feeds he was watching and responding to, as the situation developed. T behaved in a manner that was able to rouse the biggest crowds watching these channels. The actual carnage that took place was downplayed to great effect; this required certain “news” channels to white wash what was really happening, which they did. The people on those channels, the producers, the owners; they should all be considered as potentially culpable in what took place, especially after the Nov 3rd election and up to the Jan 6th insurrection attempt (as inept and loosely coordinated as it was).

    The saddest thing though, is seeing Mike Lindell heading into the White House on Friday just gone, with his handwritten notes captured by a photo-journalist with a telephoto. The notes had the usual talking points, along with “martial law” as a phrase in black and white. Well, well, well. Given the few days left, it is sure possible the T guy does something incredibly stupid. With the quality of the people advising him, anything is possible.

    Fulton county is looking at an investigation, Georgia is, Manhattan is, and so on. Not only are there
    federal charges as a prospect, but there are state-based ones for which pardon power is unavailable. I guess in the next few days we’ll find out just how desperate T is to escape the legal noose.

  23. “US army officials worried about ‘insider attack’ at Biden inauguration”

    “US army officials have requested all 25,000 members of the National Guard stationed in Washington DC for Joe Biden’s inauguration be vetted by the FBI over fears of an insider attack.” – ABC News Australia.

  24. I was beginning to wonder when Bird was going to resurface – and who was going to call it first.

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