If the State of Victoria can do The Treaty, so can Australia… “Victoria’s Treaties will be shaped by the social and political context of our state”
If the naysayers get the phrase “shaped by the social and political context of our state”, then they all need to trust existing political and social setup, and vote For The Voice.
But they don’t trust their own feelings to envision an acceptable outcome as they haven’t come to term with their own feelings of “the other”. And belie their trust in Government.
“Treaty in Victoria
…
“Treaty is an opportunity to reframe how all Victorians view ourselves, our culture, and our State. Victoria’s Treaties will be shaped by the social and political context of our state, and the aspirations of Victoria’s First Peoples. Treaty will be based on an honest reflection of our history – one that asks for respect and courage, to listen and respond to the voices of those who have cared for this Country for thousands of years.
“Treaty will deliver long-term, sustainable solutions because First Peoples will be in the driver’s seat, making decisions about the matters that impact their lives.
… https://www.firstpeoplesrelations.vic.gov.au/treaty
I posted a link but it probably got caught up in the machinery.
It is an ABC interview of Marcia Langton on the Voice and Australia Day.
I celebrated Australia Day with a game of golf and a dinner with family.
I liked the Oz’s editorial. Excerpt:
“Australia Day, January 26, is our day to celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world. Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years, the institutions brought by the British settlers from 1788 onwards, and the cultural enrichment of different waves of immigrants – have blended into a unique, diverse society that is free, tolerant, prosperous and eagerly sought after by those in search of a better life for themselves and their families.”
January 26 is definitely too divisive for Australia Day so it should be abandoned or relinquished to the people who wish to claim it as Invasion Day or mourning day. Whether we even need an Australia Day is a very good question. Why do we need it? Are people forgetting where they live? Do we really need to stir up more jingoism? I say forget it and get on with fixing our real problems from injustice and inequality to climate change and the endless pandemic of COVID-19. Symbolism achieves nothing. Empty, jingoistic, self-indulgent celebrations achieve nothing. Real action is required.
But if you got in some exercise of any kind and had an out-of-doors meal with family or friends (after Rapid Antigen Tests showed negatives across the board) then good for you. We did the same. Let’s hope these measures were enough for most people.
To be honest, I just want the day off. And I want it connected to the weekend. Not making it a long weekend, that’s what’s unAustralian, that is.
Separately, if I want anything at all (vis-a-vis national recognition), it is proper recognition/reconciliation with Australia’s Indigenous/First peoples. Reconciliation, you might notice, has to be a two-way process: Indigenous peoples reconciling themselves with what has happened and non-Indigenous peoples reconciling themselves with their ‘something’. And so long as one of those sides refuses to reconcile itself with its ‘side’–no proper reconciliation and agreement can there be.
I know there has been some progress, but I hope maybe in another 200 years or so, non-Indigenous peoples will finally be ready to reconcile themselves with the fact that their arrival here was from societies which maybe, possibly had a flaw or two, and which they brought with them.
Go Harry! I am glad you have the special issue “The appropriate interprtation of The Australian” bifical (bothsides) glasses” at hand after a tough day at the links.
DP says “The Australian’s general manager of marketing Alice Bradbury said the imagery, copy and art direction is “purposefully provocative and daring”, … And … “Yeah nah, the lizard Oz has done its level best to encourage an epidemic of dystopian violence, and now they’ve discovered the company they must keep as a result, it’s too late to shove that genie back into the bottle” …”
(^Loonpond)
Harry quotes the Oz editirial:
Oz – “Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years,”
To which I say:- Culture washing ala greenwashing of the worst kind making the case for The Voice in spades.
And we understand Harry, and are not immune to “.. that participants exhibited a significant bias toward their own initial opinion rather than equally weighting all social information they were exposed to [6], [30]. This bias is visible from the influence map shown in Fig. 3, where the blue color corresponding to “keep initial opinion” is dominant and the red one corresponding to “adopt the other opinion” is rare.
…
“Social Influence and the Collective Dynamics of Opinion Formation” https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0078433
And Tim Dunlop says:
“#thisisnotjournalism
“But it is.
“The reason it happens—and that the same problem recurs endlessly—is because no-one in the industry—certainly too few people within it—are willing to call bullshit on the way in which standard journalistic practice undermines the very thing they claim to be doing, informing the public and holding power to account. These journalistic practices are baked into the DNA of the industry and you would need a Frankenstein-scale intervention to change anything.
“It is a useful reminder that we can wring our hands all we want about the risks involved in AI programs doing journalism, but the truth is, human journalism is as pre-programmed as any algorithm and just as likely to mislead.
Scene set and Oz context aware, we may now tackle Harry’s like:
HC: “I liked the Oz’s editorial. Excerpt:”
Oz- “Australia Day, January 26, is our day to celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world.
KT2 [Boast not inclusive celebration, elides context. ” In 1888, …, New South Wales premier Henry Parkes was asked about inclusion of Aboriginal people in the celebrations. He replied: “And remind them that we have robbed them?”[66]” Wikipedia ]
Oz – “Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years,
KT2 [Culture washing ala greenwashing of the worst kind making the case for The Voice in spades. Except “The appropriate interprtation Australian” glasses” make you immune to change ]
Oz – “the institutions brought by the British settlers from 1788 onwards, and
[ Bait & switch – yes the aboriginals were certainly institutionalised by institutions broght by the British ]
“the cultural enrichment of different waves of immigrants – have blended into a unique, diverse society that is free, tolerant, prosperous and eagerly sought after by those in search of a better life for themselves and their families.”
[The politics of Envy exemplified by “what does Morrison mean by the “politics of envy”? He means ordinary people are jealous they are not rich enough to be able to “arrange their affairs” to rip off the tax system and too poor to afford their second, third or more investment property, based on gaming the negative gearing and capital gains tax rorts.”
greenleft.org.au/content/inequality-and-politics-envy ]
*
Harry, did you also read Henery Egas’ piece “Voice to entrench racial separatism”? Loonpond did.
^Loonpond re Hebery Ergas’ Voice to entrench racial separatism”:
DP: “What an incredible pile of ostentatiously divisive tosh … and yet the lizard Oz editorialist was bemused at the way that the lizard Oz had fallen into the strange company of Senator Thorpe …
DP: “Being the hole in the bucket man, our Henry found ways to be offensive that were deeply weird, by wandering back into his mind to the past, though he’d begun by telling lizard Oz readers that they were not responsible for the past … and should look to the future … and yet here we go, off to the irrelevant past …”
DP: “And so, while the confected hatred keeps getting confected, you find the lizard Oz editorialist in the strange position of scribbling these words …
(Oz Ed.) “For Indigenous people whose health, education, jobs, welfare and quality of life too often fall far short of what non-Indigenous people expect, the voice would have a major responsibility to represent their interests well and facilitate practical reconciliation. That is a good reason for voters to consider the views of Professor Langton, Noel Pearson, former coalition minister Ken Wyatt and our Senior Australian of the Year, Tom Calma, who led the Voice Co-Design process with Professor Langton.
DP: “Oh richest irony of all ironies, and so to a few final words from the hole in the bucket man, diligently smashing those words to pieces with abhorrent misuse of history … and a deeply ingrained, finely honed sense of bigotry … evoking the way that uppity, difficult, tricky black people might get an edge on long suffering whiteys, as white nationalists must do …”
…
DP: “Yeah nah, the lizard Oz has done its level best to encourage an epidemic of dystopian violence, and now they’ve discovered the company they must keep as a result, it’s too late to shove that genie back into the bottle” … https://loonpond.blogspot.com/2023/01/in-which-pond-returns-to-lizard-oz-and.html
KT2, I have no idea of what you are trying to say.
‘On Christmas Day you can’t be sore
‘Your fellow-man you must adore
‘There’s time to rob him all the more
‘The other three hundred and sixty-four!’
(‘A Christmas Carol’, by Tom Lehrer)
If we had an annual ‘Be Friendly Day’, would that mean we needn’t bothering being friendly the rest of the year? If we had an annual ‘Do Not Commit Murder’ day, would that mean we needn’t be concerned about committing murders the rest of the year? If we had an annual ‘Give Presents Day’, would that mean we needn’t give presents any other time? Having an annual day for something only makes sense to me if it’s something you’re only going to do once a year. If, for example, it’s worthwhile to ‘celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world’, why would it be worthwhile only once a year? Or if it’s worthwhile for people ‘to reconcile themselves with the fact that their arrival here was from societies which maybe, possibly had a flaw or two, and which they brought with them’, why would it be worthwhile only once a year?
John Quiggin 
If the State of Victoria can do The Treaty, so can Australia… “Victoria’s Treaties will be shaped by the social and political context of our state”
If the naysayers get the phrase “shaped by the social and political context of our state”, then they all need to trust existing political and social setup, and vote For The Voice.
But they don’t trust their own feelings to envision an acceptable outcome as they haven’t come to term with their own feelings of “the other”. And belie their trust in Government.
“Treaty in Victoria
…
“Treaty is an opportunity to reframe how all Victorians view ourselves, our culture, and our State. Victoria’s Treaties will be shaped by the social and political context of our state, and the aspirations of Victoria’s First Peoples. Treaty will be based on an honest reflection of our history – one that asks for respect and courage, to listen and respond to the voices of those who have cared for this Country for thousands of years.
“Treaty will deliver long-term, sustainable solutions because First Peoples will be in the driver’s seat, making decisions about the matters that impact their lives.
…
https://www.firstpeoplesrelations.vic.gov.au/treaty
I posted a link but it probably got caught up in the machinery.
It is an ABC interview of Marcia Langton on the Voice and Australia Day.
I celebrated Australia Day with a game of golf and a dinner with family.
I liked the Oz’s editorial. Excerpt:
“Australia Day, January 26, is our day to celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world. Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years, the institutions brought by the British settlers from 1788 onwards, and the cultural enrichment of different waves of immigrants – have blended into a unique, diverse society that is free, tolerant, prosperous and eagerly sought after by those in search of a better life for themselves and their families.”
January 26 is definitely too divisive for Australia Day so it should be abandoned or relinquished to the people who wish to claim it as Invasion Day or mourning day. Whether we even need an Australia Day is a very good question. Why do we need it? Are people forgetting where they live? Do we really need to stir up more jingoism? I say forget it and get on with fixing our real problems from injustice and inequality to climate change and the endless pandemic of COVID-19. Symbolism achieves nothing. Empty, jingoistic, self-indulgent celebrations achieve nothing. Real action is required.
But if you got in some exercise of any kind and had an out-of-doors meal with family or friends (after Rapid Antigen Tests showed negatives across the board) then good for you. We did the same. Let’s hope these measures were enough for most people.
To be honest, I just want the day off. And I want it connected to the weekend. Not making it a long weekend, that’s what’s unAustralian, that is.
Separately, if I want anything at all (vis-a-vis national recognition), it is proper recognition/reconciliation with Australia’s Indigenous/First peoples. Reconciliation, you might notice, has to be a two-way process: Indigenous peoples reconciling themselves with what has happened and non-Indigenous peoples reconciling themselves with their ‘something’. And so long as one of those sides refuses to reconcile itself with its ‘side’–no proper reconciliation and agreement can there be.
I know there has been some progress, but I hope maybe in another 200 years or so, non-Indigenous peoples will finally be ready to reconcile themselves with the fact that their arrival here was from societies which maybe, possibly had a flaw or two, and which they brought with them.
Go Harry! I am glad you have the special issue “The appropriate interprtation of The Australian” bifical (bothsides) glasses” at hand after a tough day at the links.
DP says “The Australian’s general manager of marketing Alice Bradbury said the imagery, copy and art direction is “purposefully provocative and daring”, … And … “Yeah nah, the lizard Oz has done its level best to encourage an epidemic of dystopian violence, and now they’ve discovered the company they must keep as a result, it’s too late to shove that genie back into the bottle” …”
(^Loonpond)
Harry quotes the Oz editirial:
Oz – “Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years,”
To which I say:- Culture washing ala greenwashing of the worst kind making the case for The Voice in spades.
And we understand Harry, and are not immune to “.. that participants exhibited a significant bias toward their own initial opinion rather than equally weighting all social information they were exposed to [6], [30]. This bias is visible from the influence map shown in Fig. 3, where the blue color corresponding to “keep initial opinion” is dominant and the red one corresponding to “adopt the other opinion” is rare.
…
“Social Influence and the Collective Dynamics of Opinion Formation”
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0078433
And Tim Dunlop says:
“#thisisnotjournalism
“But it is.
“The reason it happens—and that the same problem recurs endlessly—is because no-one in the industry—certainly too few people within it—are willing to call bullshit on the way in which standard journalistic practice undermines the very thing they claim to be doing, informing the public and holding power to account. These journalistic practices are baked into the DNA of the industry and you would need a Frankenstein-scale intervention to change anything.
“It is a useful reminder that we can wring our hands all we want about the risks involved in AI programs doing journalism, but the truth is, human journalism is as pre-programmed as any algorithm and just as likely to mislead.
From “Humans are perfectly capable of doing bad journalism without the help of artificial intelligence”
https://tdunlop.substack.com/p/humans-are-perfectly-capable-of-doing
h/t JQ.
*
Scene set and Oz context aware, we may now tackle Harry’s like:
HC: “I liked the Oz’s editorial. Excerpt:”
Oz- “Australia Day, January 26, is our day to celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world.
KT2 [Boast not inclusive celebration, elides context. ” In 1888, …, New South Wales premier Henry Parkes was asked about inclusion of Aboriginal people in the celebrations. He replied: “And remind them that we have robbed them?”[66]” Wikipedia ]
Oz – “Our nation’s three great strands – a rich Indigenous history dating back 60,000 years,
KT2 [Culture washing ala greenwashing of the worst kind making the case for The Voice in spades. Except “The appropriate interprtation Australian” glasses” make you immune to change ]
Oz – “the institutions brought by the British settlers from 1788 onwards, and
[ Bait & switch – yes the aboriginals were certainly institutionalised by institutions broght by the British ]
“the cultural enrichment of different waves of immigrants – have blended into a unique, diverse society that is free, tolerant, prosperous and eagerly sought after by those in search of a better life for themselves and their families.”
[The politics of Envy exemplified by “what does Morrison mean by the “politics of envy”? He means ordinary people are jealous they are not rich enough to be able to “arrange their affairs” to rip off the tax system and too poor to afford their second, third or more investment property, based on gaming the negative gearing and capital gains tax rorts.”
greenleft.org.au/content/inequality-and-politics-envy ]
*
Harry, did you also read Henery Egas’ piece “Voice to entrench racial separatism”? Loonpond did.
^Loonpond re Hebery Ergas’ Voice to entrench racial separatism”:
DP: “What an incredible pile of ostentatiously divisive tosh … and yet the lizard Oz editorialist was bemused at the way that the lizard Oz had fallen into the strange company of Senator Thorpe …
DP: “Being the hole in the bucket man, our Henry found ways to be offensive that were deeply weird, by wandering back into his mind to the past, though he’d begun by telling lizard Oz readers that they were not responsible for the past … and should look to the future … and yet here we go, off to the irrelevant past …”
DP: “And so, while the confected hatred keeps getting confected, you find the lizard Oz editorialist in the strange position of scribbling these words …
(Oz Ed.) “For Indigenous people whose health, education, jobs, welfare and quality of life too often fall far short of what non-Indigenous people expect, the voice would have a major responsibility to represent their interests well and facilitate practical reconciliation. That is a good reason for voters to consider the views of Professor Langton, Noel Pearson, former coalition minister Ken Wyatt and our Senior Australian of the Year, Tom Calma, who led the Voice Co-Design process with Professor Langton.
DP: “Oh richest irony of all ironies, and so to a few final words from the hole in the bucket man, diligently smashing those words to pieces with abhorrent misuse of history … and a deeply ingrained, finely honed sense of bigotry … evoking the way that uppity, difficult, tricky black people might get an edge on long suffering whiteys, as white nationalists must do …”
…
DP: “Yeah nah, the lizard Oz has done its level best to encourage an epidemic of dystopian violence, and now they’ve discovered the company they must keep as a result, it’s too late to shove that genie back into the bottle” …
https://loonpond.blogspot.com/2023/01/in-which-pond-returns-to-lizard-oz-and.html
KT2, I have no idea of what you are trying to say.
‘On Christmas Day you can’t be sore
‘Your fellow-man you must adore
‘There’s time to rob him all the more
‘The other three hundred and sixty-four!’
(‘A Christmas Carol’, by Tom Lehrer)
If we had an annual ‘Be Friendly Day’, would that mean we needn’t bothering being friendly the rest of the year? If we had an annual ‘Do Not Commit Murder’ day, would that mean we needn’t be concerned about committing murders the rest of the year? If we had an annual ‘Give Presents Day’, would that mean we needn’t give presents any other time? Having an annual day for something only makes sense to me if it’s something you’re only going to do once a year. If, for example, it’s worthwhile to ‘celebrate all that makes Australia one of the most successful and cohesive multicultural democracies in the world’, why would it be worthwhile only once a year? Or if it’s worthwhile for people ‘to reconcile themselves with the fact that their arrival here was from societies which maybe, possibly had a flaw or two, and which they brought with them’, why would it be worthwhile only once a year?