The Internets are buzzing with the latest survey showing, among other things, Republicans are split on the Birther issue with only 47 per cent accepting the claim that Obama was born in the US. That’s almost exactly equal to the 48 per cent who agree that global warming exists – it’s evident from the public debate that the overlap between Birthers and opponents of AGW is very high ).
But I wouldn’t want to give the impression that over 50 per cent of Republicans are conspiracy theorists who believe in a secret plot to impose a Kenyan-socialist dictatorship as part of the UN/IPCC system of world government. On the contrary, the proportion is only about 25 per cent (more in the South). As on the global warming issue, the balance of opinion within the Republican Party holds to the sensible “sceptical” position: the science isn’t settled, the birth records are unclear, sightings of black helicopters need further investigation and so on. That’s good to know.
John Quiggin 
Apparently George Bush II organised those airplanes that collided with with the World Trade Centre.
Terje, I believe you can find people (PrisonPlanet for example) who back the trifecta.
BTW, let me announce now that any comments advocating Birtherism, Trutherism or AGW delusionism will be deleted.
If anyone wants to defend the “sceptical” position as a reasonable response to uncertainty, or to suggest that there is some fundamental difference between the different conspiracy-theoretic claims discussed above, they are welcome to do so, even though this position is arguably more delusional than outright delusionism.
Still more Republicans believe the requirement for being a natural born citizen should be removed to allow people like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Daniel Hannan in. Those crazy Republicans!
There is a repulsive anti Semetic Kiwi mag called Uncensored that is big on 911 theories and AGW scepticism (David Evens has an article in there). I’m not sure about their position on the birth cert but it sounds like something that they would love.
Joseph, you can fool most of the Republicans all of the time, and all of the Republicans most of the time, but, as your example indicates …
It is very sad. The antics of the ‘birthers’ reflect very poorly on Americans as a whole. It very much reinforces perrceptions of Americans as being variously unhinged, bigoted, paranoid and obsessed with nonsense. When Obama was elected, America’s standing in the rest of the world went up enormously. His election suggested that the country had taken a bold step forward. They had just elected a man of intelligence and humanity, notwithstanding that he was of African descent.
There are some people (unfortunately quite a few) for whom the idea of having a President who is both liberal and black is anathema and who’d prefer the rest of the world to see them as a bunch of moronic rednecks. It’s hard to fathom.
I read that 73% of Republicans, 61% of Independents and even 58% of Democrats believed the biblical creation story was literally true.
and 81% overall (and even 68% of postgrads) believe that the bible is literally true or ‘inspired by god’
It’s hardly surprising that in a setting such as this, whacky conspiracy theories and bigotry are rife and that it’s going to take a very long time before the more unreconstructed sections of the populace are dragged kicking and screaming to modernity.
Fran
Fran, those figures on creationism are for regular churchgoers only. The figures for the general population are 57-41-44, alarming but not quite as bad. And it’s not as though the rest of the world is free of silly beliefs. Take out the Republican base and the South (overlapping groups) and Americans look much like the rest of the world.
I’m sceptical about that research (though not about AGW or Obama’s birthplace). That more than 50% of Republicans believe he was not US born or did not know, just does no smell right. It is always reassuring when your opponents say something stupid but that’s the very situation to which you should apply your sense of doubt. The Daily Kos, which commissioned the work is an organ always glad to find evidence that Republicans have an IQ less than their body temperature. Research 2000 is an organisation specialising in advocacy research for groups and companies. I’d like to see the work done again by another research house before I believed it.
Ken, are you saying Republicans believe Obama was born in the Kingdom of Hawaii?
@Michael of Summer Hill
I believe that the great majority of Republicans accept he was born where his birth certificate says.
Some believe otherwise, no doubt.
Some Democrats, though not a majority, believe Bush was a thorough-going tool of the religious right.
The great majority of Americans (and Australians and British and even Italians) are rational and sensible. Even when they disagree with me ie when they are wrong.
Funny old world innit? But, reassuring in a way.
Ken, I’m a bit slow these days but explain to me why 47% of Republicans cannot get it wright as to where Obama was not born.
@Joseph Clark
“Still more Republicans believe the requirement for being a natural born citizen [to be eligible as US President] should be removed to allow people like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Daniel Hannan in”.
Look again; that’s not the requirement. The requirement is being a natural born citizen or a citizen at the time of the adoption of the US Constitution. So all they have to do is re-adopt it, or claim that Schwarzenegger was actually that old but that records had been lost. Or I suppose they could claim that as at the date of Schwarzenegger’s birth, Austria was sufficiently a US possession by virtue of the post-war joint occupation – even though his birthplace was in the British zone (the same get out that allowed John McCain to qualify despite being born in the US-occupied part of Panama).
If all else failed, there’s the old dodge of passing a constitution interpretation act, with e.g. “…for the purposes of interpreting this clause of the constitution all US citizens who are not otherwise ineligible shall be deemed to have been US citizens at all dates prior to their birth and and to be such at all dates subsequent to their death…”.
@Michael of Summer Hill
Michael, I won’t try to explain because I don’t believe it is true. Opinion polling is not a very exact science. This one is (at least to a person with reasonably independent political views) unbelievable and therefore probably wrong. Most people who use opinion or buying or voter intention polling will when faced with a report that seems wrong (or too good to be true) repeat it. The exceptions are those who are not going to act on the research but use it for advocacy or to get a good story.
No Ken, the poll does not explain why 47% of Republicans believe Obama was not born in the USA. Tell me as to why so many Republicans have got it wrong for I’m really really interested in knowing the truth.
@Michael of Summer Hill
1. The poll figures for Republicans was 42% believed Obama was born in the US, 28% believed he was not and 30% said they did not know.
2. I do not believe these figures accurately represent the beliefs of Republicans, for the reasons I gave in my last comment.
Beyond that, I can’t help you in your search for the truth.
Fran There is a huge difference between believing the bible is literally true and that it is inspired by God. Belief that that the Bible is somewhat inspired by God would be a pre requisite for being chrisitian and not all christians take the bible literally.
@ken
“I believe that the great majority of Republicans accept he was born where his birth certificate says.”
“Some Democrats, though not a majority, believe Bush was a thorough-going tool of the religious right.”
Apples and exploding clockwork oranges here, Ken. The first issue is one of fact, both as to Obama’s birth and as to your doubt in the accuracy of the polling data. Anyone who holds doubts on the birthplace fact is clearly allowing political animus to lead them into delusion. Since the majority of Republicans hold delusional beliefs on a range of issues (AGW is noted in the post), I don’t have any particular reason to doubt the poll results, but we can wait for more data.
The second is a political judgement. If you took Bush at his word, you would conclude that he was indeed a tool of the religious right. If you assumed that he was a typical Republican politician, you would conclude that he was hypocritically posing as a religious rightist in order to pursue the interests of the wealthy. I agree with you and with most Democrats, that the latter view is more plausible, but it’s a matter of judgement.
Ken, I’m a bit thick these days but I would really like to know the reason as to why only 28% of Republican respondents know where their President was born.
“Since the majority of Republicans hold delusional beliefs on a range of issues (AGW is noted in the post), I don’t have any particular reason to doubt the poll results.”
Oh, wow, JQ you would fail your students if they made such a leaping inference .
And Michael I realize you are pretending to be obtuse. I am sure you are not.
@El Mono
It’s a nuance — both assume the existence of god manifest in human conduct. Given the question of agency, the inspired by god formulation is simply cover for the literal view.
Ken, I’m flabbergast to know that the majority of Republicans don’t know where their President was born for if you ask any Labor supporter the same question about where John Howard was born they would say he was a cockroach.
JQ
Republicans, Dems & Indies on creation
Only 17% of democrats and 19% of Indies say god had no part … hmmm
Ken, I’ve given you the opportunity to correct me but if 58% of Republican respondents have no idea where Obama was born (even with plus/minus 5% error) then there is something drastically wrong.
So Ken. That means that we need to assess the evidence on the balance of probabilities. Is it likely? Unfortunately, yes. Are the figures exact? Probably no. Are they a near approximation? All too likely.
OK, whatever you all think.
Ken, if you look closely as to where the respondents come from, you will notice a close correlation between the outcome of the poll and respondents from the South. But I still would like to know the reason as to why so many from the South do not know where their President was born.
It’s all you get on the news channels, I now understand why the comedians are getting more respect when it comes to news reporting. Bill Maher summered it up, the dumb are talking to the dumb.
Charles, I’m a bit slow these days so tell me the reason as to why so many from the South do not know where their President was born.
Failure to present a birth certificate is fuelling much of the speculation.
The number of people who believe Obama is a natural born US citizen will increase dramatically were he to produce his birth certificate. To date Obama has declined to produce his birth certificate.
The disqualification steed has well & truly bolted. It doesn’t matter where he was born, or what citizenship he was born with. He is now the democratically elected president. End-of-story.
Steve at the Pub, maybe you can answer my question for I am a bit thick as to the reason why so many from the South do not know where their President was born.
@Steve at the Pub
There you are Ken. Even Australian Repug supporters are Birthers/sceptics. And so are most Republican members of Congress.
So capital D for Denial seems to be the main republican policy… well thats interesting. Have they got any policies that arent in denial is a more pertinent question. I think the answer is D on the multiple choice question – Does any policy need changing? D) = deny all of the above.
Alice, this is more than denial for TerjeP (say tay-a), Ken, or Steve at the pub have something in common with many from the South.
Micheal of Summer Hill, most of what you type here shows you ain’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but you can stop with the implication I believe Obama is or is not born anywhere. Read for comprehension.
JQ, read for comprehension. I have not suggested that I believe or believe anything about Obama’s birthplace/citizenship, (or that I am a republican or monarchist)
Ok Michael – The hypothesis here is that republicans deny facts more often than other parties – the null hypothesis is they dont. Steve adds to the case for rejection of the null for in the one post he manages to deny any relationship between his understanding of where Obama was born and his ability to gather facts due to immediacy of a reasonable google answer in the electronic world, by virture of sheer numbers.
Is that a hands off opinion Steve?
Nice try – but if I was marking your essay Id write LOGIC!! in the margin.
Tell me Steve at the Pub, what do you think of people who encourage ‘four years of chimpanzee/retard jokes’ about Obama.
Just in case – Obama was born August 4, 1961, Honolulu, Hawaii.
Claiming “I dont know”, “I havent seen the birth certificate”, is well….just lame denialism – something republicans seem to specialise in (and their lame followers here).
Steve needs to stick to the impact of pokie taxes…something he is more affected by personally and doesnt need to confirm by exercising a spirit of objective inquiry.
@Michael of Summer Hill
Yes Michael – we do agree on this. I know who have have the dimmed light bulbs here (and I might have criticised you Micahel on prior occasions for your unquestioning acceptance of NSW Labor party – who are indeed pathetic) – but your assessment of Terje P, Ken and Steve at the pub – I would say yes – throw them in the denialist bin along with the 47% of other silly republicans poll respondents and republican denialist poiticians in congress (pants on fire)…both amazing and disturbing how political affiliations can cloud truly independent and intellectually unbiased thinking isnt it?
Tell me Steve at the Pub, what do you think of bloggers who argue that ‘The horn of africa types are obviously unwanted in Tamworth’.
Oddly enough Steve, I just read a post from you at LP, taking an almost identical line on AGW. Given that I was just accused of posting socks in my own comment threads, please advise any new readers that you’re a regular here and not someone I’ve made up to prove my point about “sceptics”.
I happily confirm I am a regular/occassional poster of longstanding on this site.
All posts made in my name are my own.
I post under no other name.
Barack Obama has produced his birth certificate; it’s available for viewing on numerous web sites.
If you want to escape reality for a while have a look at the Birthers website, it’s wonderfully bizarre and includes claims that the birth certificate is a forgery and that Obama is a racist. On that latter charge, accusations that Obama is a racist have also been made by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck, so the audience is wide. Joan Walsh of Salon has suggested that the claims are projection and also part of a broader right wing strategy to generally discredit Obama and thus frustrate his social and economic agenda.
Any excuse to get rid of Obama, even a conspiracy will do.
Damien, are you suggesting that racism in the South has not been expunged?
I wonder how Birthers think that Obama could have got through the whole presidential campaign including the nasty part with Hilary without anyone noticing that he wasn’t born in the USA.
Jill Rush, to deny someone citizenship is racist. Have a good night for I’m watching the end of The Fugitive.
@John Quiggin
As evidence for the latter (Bush using the religious right more than the reverse), I’d recommend David Kuo, Tempting Faith – An Inside Story of Political Seduction, 2006., which offers one well-informed viewpoint, from isndie the Office of faith-Based Initiatives.
@Fran Barlow
In effect it isn’t though as as plenty of Christians (in particular i am thinking of a particularly large Christian group who aren’t particularly liked by the evangelicals) don’t believe in Creationism who do belive that the stories in Gensis are inspired by God. I know you would love to lump all Christians into one easy to hate group but i am sorry it is not that easy.
@Michael of Summer Hill
Racism has not been expunged in LA or New York either, or Sydney or Brisbane for that matter.
“Kenyan-socialist dictatorship”. Ummm… Am I missing something here? Why “Kenyan”?