Home > Life in General > For daylight saving

For daylight saving

November 3rd, 2005

Mark Bahnisch comes out against daylight saving, arguing that, in Brisbane’s summer weather it’s better to finish work after sunset.

I’m generally in favour as I tend to wake up with the sun. Because Brisbane is so far east (we’re not far from Byron Bay), sunrise in summer is very early – it’s light before 5am. In some ways, that’s good (it’s a great time to get work done), but not if you want to stay up past about 9pm. It gets dark pretty early, around 6:30.

I suspect that daylight saving here does little more than restore the time in Brisbane to what it would be under “God’s time”, without time zones or other fiddles.

The problem is, of course, that the state is big in both directions. The tropics have very little seasonal variation in the length of the day, which makes daylight saving in summer nonsensical while the west has the opposite problem to Brisbane. But given that we have to have one time zone for the whole state (an internal border would be ludicrous), we should pick it to suit the majority, who live in the Southeast corner.

Of course, anyone who really doesn’t like daylight saving could leave their watch unchanged, stick to their old schedules as far as possible, and just bear in mind that everyone else is using a different time. The reverse is true in the present situation if you really like daylight saving.

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  1. wilful
    November 3rd, 2005 at 16:19 | #1

    And here I was thinking that Queenslanders dislike of daylight saving was some laughably provincial conservatism. Not recognising the (obvious once pointed out) matter of it being a coupla thousand kms closer to the equator than Vic.

  2. November 3rd, 2005 at 17:46 | #2

    And here I was thinking southerners preference for daylight saving was some laughable provincial mob mentality. Not realising the obvious matter of them simply being too lazy to get out of bed in time to enjoy the sunshine.

  3. Dave Ricardo
    November 3rd, 2005 at 18:01 | #3

    As I recall, when a referendum was held on daylight saving in the early 90s, even Brisbane voted against it. Maybe they thought it would fade their curtains. Maybe they thought it would upset their pet cows.

    Ah, Queenslanders, cretinous one day, moronic the rest.

  4. Roberto
    November 3rd, 2005 at 18:34 | #4

    Day light saving is probably just another conspiracy of the Illuminati and Bilderbergers!

  5. November 3rd, 2005 at 18:54 | #5

    Personally I would be happy, as a Victorian, to live on daylight saving all the time. I love the longer evenings; it doesn’t bother me getting up before dawn.

    What I don’t like is the process of rejigging my internal clock, which takes a couple of weeks to set itself either way, while I feel like I should be on another part of my daily cycle.

    I suspect all those complaints about the cows have a basis in fact. If the milking cycle is pinned to a pickup time by the truck, then the farmer has to move the stock at a different time. It looks as if a lot of the farmers labour is done automatically, as the cows come in by themselves, as long as they know the time.

  6. Andrew Reynolds
    November 3rd, 2005 at 19:12 | #6

    PrQ,
    The reverse of your statement “…anyone who really doesn’t like daylight saving could leave their watch unchanged, stick to their old schedules as far as possible, and just bear in mind that everyone else is using a different time…” could also be true – if you like the idea of daylight saving, you change your watch etc.
    Lets just leave legal time the way it is and you can change your own watch the way you want it to be to suit yourself, just bearing in mind that others may be different. Perhaps we could all live our lives in this way – the very essence of freedom.
    Don’t play with my clock and I won’t mess with yours.

  7. Iain
    November 3rd, 2005 at 19:40 | #7

    The official sunset time in Brisbane in January is around 6:50pm. But as Brisbane residents well know it is not fully dark until well after 7:30pm.

    By this time – I am quite happy for it to be dark. Especially when I know parents in Mt Isa that have to put kids to bed when it is still daylight until well after 10pm.

    Daylight saving makes no sense for Queensland. No matter how much mindless bleating comes from the Mexicans about it.

  8. November 3rd, 2005 at 20:25 | #8

    Soft and puny Mexicans need more sunlight I suppose but in Queensland – especially out West and up North – it’s completely illogical nonsense.

  9. Terje Petersen
    November 3rd, 2005 at 20:41 | #9

    QUOTE: But given that we have to have one time zone for the whole state (an internal border would be ludicrous), we should pick it to suit the majority, who live in the Southeast corner.

    RESPONSE: I don’t see any reason why an internal time boundary could not work. Why should time zones and political zones be the one and the same. The Federal government functions even though Australia has multiple different time zones.

    Put a time boundary through QLD and let the South Eastern part join with NSW and Victoria as a common time zone. The North zone could skip on daylight savings.

  10. Steve Edney
    November 3rd, 2005 at 21:02 | #10

    Two time zone work perfectly well in NSW – Broken Hill being on central Australian time. Why don’t the Mount Isa residents do the same, and also slice into Nth-Sth zones for a daylight savings.

  11. Dave Ricardo
    November 3rd, 2005 at 21:06 | #11

    “The official sunset time in Brisbane in January is around 6:50pm. But as Brisbane residents well know it is not fully dark until well after 7:30pm”

    This is a nonsense. There is no dusk in Brisbane in summer. Night time drops in the early evening like a big black brick.

    “Especially when I know parents in Mt Isa that have to put kids to bed when it is still daylight until well after 10pm. ”

    Mt Isa parents must be deficient in parenting skills. Parents all over the world manage to to put their kids to bed in summer when it is still daylight.

  12. jquiggin
    November 3rd, 2005 at 21:33 | #12

    Andrew, I mentioned that the reverse of my statement was also true.

  13. November 3rd, 2005 at 21:44 | #13

    “God’s time” involves the length of hours changing with the seasons and whether it is day or night.

  14. Dave Ricardo
    November 3rd, 2005 at 21:54 | #14

    The village of Thredbo in the NSW Snowy Mountains had its own daylight saving before it was generally adopted. They put their clocks forward 30 minutes in summer, “Thredbo time” it was called. Worked for them.

    There’s no point in trying to convince the Deliverance-types in Queensland who live outside the SE to adopt daylight saving. Just have it from Coolangatta to Noosa for anyone else who wants to join in.

  15. Ugly Dave
    November 3rd, 2005 at 22:06 | #15

    Why would having different time zones within states be an issue? For a start there are two time zones in NSW and in quite a few states in the USA, some counties opt to be in different times zones to the rest of the state.

  16. Andrew
    November 4th, 2005 at 05:48 | #16

    I distinctly recall summer days getting light at 4 am, and it was light enough to wake me a 10 to 5 this morning — but I’m quite happy to not have daylight saving. Not having the blazing afternoon sun heating up the house until 8 pm means savings on running air conditioning to make the house liveable in the evening.

  17. November 4th, 2005 at 07:57 | #17

    Brisbane & the south-east are most welcome to do Queensland a favour by seceding from god’s own state, & moving the border north, joining with the ranting wetback hordes.

  18. November 4th, 2005 at 09:20 | #18

    The village of Thredbo in the NSW Snowy Mountains had its own daylight saving before it was generally adopted. They put their clocks forward 30 minutes in summer, “Thredbo time� it was called. Worked for them.

    I didn’t know that, and it’s something I’ve often thought of, that rural towns whose populations didn’t like DS could always vote on a local or shire level to keep Eastern Standard time going in their municipality. As long as they kept it in mind when dealing with people and businesses in other states, what’s the problem?

  19. Dogz
    November 4th, 2005 at 09:41 | #19

    Personally, I run on metric time. 100 seconds to the minute, 100 minutes to the hour, and 10 hours to the day. Much easier. Unfortunately, no-one else seems to be able to make it to meetings on time.

  20. Homer Paxton
    November 4th, 2005 at 10:14 | #20

    Daylight saving doesn’t work.
    my bank wouldn”t accept it as a deposit.

  21. November 4th, 2005 at 10:47 | #21

    There are people who believe that changing the clock one hour will “create” extra daylight in the evening.

    Scarily, these people are allowed to vote!

  22. Homer Paxton
    November 4th, 2005 at 10:56 | #22

    I thought we already had the enLIGHTenment

  23. Dave Ricardo
    November 4th, 2005 at 11:28 | #23

    Hey, Quiggers, why don’t you show a bit of Queenslander leadership and wind the date stamp on this blog one hour to Eastern Daylight Time?

  24. Russell
    November 4th, 2005 at 12:00 | #24

    We don’t have it in WA either, which suits me fine …. the main thing is that people have flexible working times. Like a lot of people, apart from some rostered shifts or meetings, I can start anytime from 7.30 to 9.30 and work longer some days and then take time off when I want. So much business is now done by email and that also reduces the need for people to speak to each by ‘phone.

  25. rossco
    November 4th, 2005 at 12:40 | #25

    Daylight saving is not really appropriate for the tropics – WA and Qld have large areas in the tropics. Is it just coincidence that these are the two States which have rejected daylight saving? Any future referendum on daylight saving in those States should exclude the tropics. There is no reason why we can’t have different time zones within a State given that we already have so many time zones across the country. On a population basis there are relatively few people living in tropical WA and Qld.
    I live in Perth now but lived in the East for many years including while my children were young. Any problems in getting kids to bed are due to parents and/or kids, not daylight saving.
    I seem to recall that areas in WA across the Nullabor operate on a different time to Perth on an informal basis but I don’t have any evidence for this. Would make sense given the enormous distance between say Eucla and Perth.

  26. Hal9000
    November 4th, 2005 at 15:54 | #26

    There is no reason why a state cannot operate on 2 time zones. Broken Hill (NSW) manages on SA time quite well. The nation operates on 3 or 4 (even occasionally 5). As a matter of fact, if the democratic will of the people were expressed in time zones (1992 referendum), the south east would have it and the rest wouldn’t. There were solid majorities in favour in all south-east local government areas and against elsewhere (link below). Give it to those who want it and not to those who don’t. Simple, really.

    http://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/asp/index.asp?pgid=176

  27. jquiggin
    November 4th, 2005 at 16:24 | #27

    “Hey, Quiggers, why don’t you show a bit of Queenslander leadership and wind the date stamp on this blog one hour to Eastern Daylight Time?”

    Fiddling with timestamp + WordPress +ecto = chaos.

  28. Iain
    November 4th, 2005 at 18:47 | #28

    Dave Ricardo – if you live in Brisbane put your head outside in late January at 7:30pm – it isn’t fully dark. I am not sure where you get off telling people what is and isn’t nonsense.

  29. Dave Ricardo
    November 4th, 2005 at 20:43 | #29

    Iain, on January 31 2006 the sun will set in Brisbane at 6.43pm. By 7.30 pm it will be the ace of spades. Illumination by lightbulb doesn’t count.

    By the way, sunset in Perth on that day will be at 7.20 pm. The sandgropers are so far west in their time zone they already have semi-daylight saving. (In Sydney, which as at about the same latitiude as Perth, the sun will set at 8.03pm on that day, and that’s with an hour of daylight saving.)

  30. Heat-Struck
    November 4th, 2005 at 21:34 | #30

    dont need the clock to tell me when the heat starts easing off before venturing out to attend to outside chores or begin cooking an evening meal in Bris. The contrast between the summmer heat exhaustion factor in Qld and the southern states is staggering. Lived in Wollongong for 6 years after 20 yrs in Rockhampton; was truly amazed by the soft southern summer where a cool breeze miraculously appeared at 3pm and one needed a light cardy after work in November. Contrast that to Rocky sometimes reaching temps. of 35C and 40C in November, and worse in NW and Nth Qld— I gain nothing from daylight saving as i wait until the sun and heat starts dropping before commencing various tiring or heat producing activities. We dont ‘draw curtains’ in the evening up here; its too stifling.
    Long twilights are lovely when one lives in a temperate climate, otherwise one waits til dark for some heat relief; even the metal roofs make alarming sounds as they cool down.. The rubbishing about the cows and faded curtains is about as inept as the original notions. I’m bemused to hear southerners advise putting up heavier curtains/blinds to exclude sunlight if you wish to retire to bed early. I’ll just follow the sun whenever possible and not the clock.

  31. jquiggin
    November 4th, 2005 at 22:15 | #31

    I think Broken Hill is the exception that proves the rule. For most purposes, it’s part of SA and therefore operates on Adelaide time.

  32. Terje Petersen
    November 5th, 2005 at 07:48 | #32

    On the question of Metric Time this extract from Wikipedia may interest.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time#France

    EXTRACT:-


    In more modern times, decimal time was introduced during the French Revolution in the decree of 5 October 1793:

    XI. Le jour, de minuit à minuit, est divisé en dix parties, chaque partie en dix autres, ainsi de suite jusqu’à la plus petite portion commensurable de la durée.
    XI. The day, from midnight to midnight, is divided into ten parts, each part into ten others, so on until the smallest measurable portion of duration.
    These parts were named on 24 November 1793 (4 Frimaire II). The primary divisions were called hours, and they added:

    La centième partie de l’heure est appelée minute décimale; la centième partie de la minute est appelée seconde décimale. (emphasis in original)
    The hundredth part of the hour is called decimal minute; the hundredth part of the minute is called decimal second.
    Thus, midnight was reckoned as 10 o’clock, noon as 5 o’clock, etc. Although clocks and watches were produced with faces showing both standard time with numbers 1-24 and decimal time with numbers 1-10, decimal time never caught on; it was not officially used until the beginning of the Republican year III, September 22, 1794, and was officially suspended April 7, 1795. The French Republican Calendar, which was introduced at the same time and divided the month into three décades of 10 days each, eventually also fell out of use, and was abolished at the end of 1805. The original metric system, also adopted during the Revolution, beginning in 1790, had no unit of time; later versions of the metric system used the second equal to 1/86400 day as the metric time unit.

    The French made another attempt at the decimalization of time in 1897, when the Commission de décimalisation du temps was created by the Bureau des Longitudes, with the mathematician Henri Poincaré as secretary. The commission proposed a compromise of retaining the 24-hour day, but dividing each hour into 100 decimal minutes, and each minute into 100 seconds. The plan did not gain acceptance and was abandoned in 1900.

  33. Ian Gould
    November 5th, 2005 at 11:45 | #33

    Max Bannissch wrote: “It gets extremely hot in Brisbane in summer, and the heat is made a thousand times worse for about three months by extreme cloying humidity. And in Brisbane, in contrast to some other cities I’ve visited, it heats up very quickly – it can be 30 already when you’re waiting for the bus at 8am on a hot day, and cools down quickly too. So just as I don’t particularly enjoy walking home in the middle of winter at 5.30pm when it’s already dark, I’d rather not leave work when it’s still really hot and unpleasant.”

    That’s all well and good but I’d prefer to be woken up every morning by flock s of Kookaburras at 6.00 AM rather than 5.00 AM.

  34. Ian Gould
    November 5th, 2005 at 11:49 | #34

    David: Iain, on January 31 2006 the sun will set in Brisbane at 6.43pm. By 7.30 pm it will be the ace of spades.

    David, take the word of a life-long Brisbane resident. In January, it’s light enough outdoprs to read until 8.00 PM or later.

  35. Dave Ricardo
    November 5th, 2005 at 16:41 | #35

    Ian, only if you are a bat.

  36. Darryl Rosin
    November 6th, 2005 at 23:03 | #36

    That’s a nice point about Broken Hill. Back in the day, state MPs for Broken Hill used to travel to Sydney via Adelaide – a neat reminder of the origin of timezones as regulation to support railway timetables.

    If SEQ moves onto DST, what will the railway timetables do? Citytrain is easy because the entire network is in SEQ, but what about long distance and freight?

    I know this can be characterised as nitpicking about minor details, but so is complaining about the birds and sun at 5am. If I were feeling grumpier I’d mention that there are plenty of places in Australia where this isn’t a feature of summer lifestyle. :^P

  37. Andrew Reynolds
    November 6th, 2005 at 23:31 | #37

    The whole thing is really quite silly. Maybe the Chinese have a point – put the whole country onto one time zone and be done with it.

    Of course, that should be Perth time.

  38. R. Patterson
    November 7th, 2005 at 14:25 | #38

    D/light saving is again the easy option, clocks changed so not to upset the dolts eh?
    Why don’t the southern states just get up an hour earlier, start work as well knock off an hour earlier. That way the clocks would not have to be changed at all. Or perhaps getting up earlier is beyond the “bright?” southerners?
    As for Qld. wasn’t a referendum for d/light saving rejected a few years ago?
    Some twits want a referendum every year until the vote goes their way apparantly.
    Only a total moron would want D/light saving in the sub-tropics or the tropics. Regards, R.P.

  39. November 7th, 2005 at 20:23 | #39

    Amen to that, R Patterson

  40. November 7th, 2005 at 22:17 | #40

    John’s intro is well balanced but the debate disintegrates rapidly from there on.

    The geographical fact is that Queensland is the wrong flamin’ shape for daylight savings. Not many people realise that Cairns (145 46 Long.) is actually further west than Charleville (146 14 Long.)! Those living north of Rocky are never going to vote for DS.

    However, having lived in “Mexico” for 15+ years, Darwin for 20+ years and now Brisbane for 6 years, I have to say that it’s time for the Weather Mecca corner of Australia to move into the 21st century. I don’t want my leisure time to start two hours before I head off to work. (Call me strange but I like to wind down after I’ve been stressed, not before.)

    The simple solution…? There is none.

    We need to listen to what our number plates are trying to tell us, we can live in the “Smart State” and the “Sunshine State” at the same time. We just have to be original (no Queenslander’s afraid of that) and imaginative…

  41. Andrew Reynolds
    November 7th, 2005 at 22:44 | #41

    There is a simple solution – leave the clocks alone and sort it out yourselves. If a town, business or person wants to start trading a bit earlier than everyone else – let them. Deregulate trading hours, let companies sort out their own working hours in consultation with their employees and clients and throw the whole stupid mess that tinkering with time has left us in.
    5 (or more) variable time zones in this country is just plain silly.

  42. November 8th, 2005 at 08:35 | #42

    Those who oppose daylight saving are almost universally net contributors to society.
    Almost all the net takers from society are in the “pro” daylight saving camp.
    Thus the daylight saving argument is over.

  43. Katz
    November 8th, 2005 at 08:51 | #43

    Perhaps Queensland’s problem of size and climatic diversity in relation to workable time zones could be cured by setting the clocks to readily identifiable climate related events. For example:

    1. The time a certain number of cane toads sit on a defined patch of road could signify lunch time.

    2. The time that only Victorians are still swimming in the surf could signify knock-off time.

    Perhaps Queenslanders with a more intimate knowledge of their environs may care to add to this potentially useful list.

  44. Paul Norton
    November 8th, 2005 at 09:44 | #44

    A major reason we are once again having a daylight saving debate in Queensland is that in the century and a half since the state border was established, some hundreds of thousands of people decided that the area straddling the border was a nice place to live and do business. The time zones issue is only one consequence of this development.

    Whilst changing the state border is difficult, moving several hundred thousand people/houses/buildings/etc. is even more so. The question then becomes whether it is preferable to shift the state border north (to about the northern edge of the Burnett River catchment) or south (to the southern edge of the Clarence River catchment). The former would have the detrimental effect of leaving the residual State of Queensland with an unviable population and revenue base, and a nasty brawl in the offing between Cairns and Townsville about which town would be the new capital. The latter would create a bigger and stronger Queensland and eliminate (or at least massively reduce) the Coolangatta/Tweed time zone problem. It would also spare our State politicians from the accusation of treason to the State when it is revealed that they take their holidays in or around Byron Bay.

  45. jquiggin
    November 8th, 2005 at 14:34 | #45

    Steve

    “Those who oppose daylight saving are almost universally net contributors to society.
    Almost all the net takers from society are in the “pro� daylight saving camp.
    Thus the daylight saving argument is over.”

    As everyone knows, the strongest advocates of daylight saving are businesses who are inconvenienced by the time difference between Brisbane and Sydney. It’s been a while since I ran across the view that all businesspeople are exploiters, extracting surplus value from the workers who do all the production, but it’s refreshing, if a bit surprising, to see it restated :-) .

  46. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 15:14 | #46

    “it’s refreshing, if a bit surprising, to see it restated”

    It’s not surprising to me. Steve reminds me of a lot of Marxists I have known.

    “eliminate (or at least massively reduce) the Coolangatta/Tweed time zone problem”

    It’s not a problem on New Year’s Eve. You can get stonkered in Tweed Heads and go nutso on the stroke on the midnight, then walk across the road and do it all again an hour later.

  47. Dogz
    November 8th, 2005 at 15:18 | #47

    It’s been a while since I ran across the view that all businesspeople are exploiters, extracting surplus value from the workers who do all the production, but it’s refreshing, if a bit surprising, to see it restated

    In contrast to publicly funded academic proponents of the “dismal science”, who are well known for their net contribution to society :)

    (adding a smiley at the end of a sentence denigrating an entire segment of the populace without any justification whatsoever makes it ok).

  48. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 15:43 | #48

    Dogz, I think Quiggers was being ironic.

    Doh!

  49. Paul Norton
    November 8th, 2005 at 16:11 | #49

    JQ wrote:

    “It’s been a while since I ran across the view that all businesspeople are exploiters, extracting surplus value from the workers who do all the production, but it’s refreshing, if a bit surprising, to see it restated.”

    Would the last time have been the Tooheys Draught commercial which stated that:

    There are people in this country
    That work hard every day
    And it’s not for fame or fortune that they strive
    But the fruits of their labour
    Are worth more than their pay
    So it’s time a few of them were recognised.
    ?

  50. Andrew Reynolds
    November 8th, 2005 at 16:33 | #50

    Of course, the business people could just all decide to fight against daylight saving in NSW. Why should the rest of us have to deal with the stupidity of the people of Newcastle Sydney Wollongong state?

  51. jquiggin
    November 8th, 2005 at 18:21 | #51

    That would really confuse the class analysis, Andrew !

  52. Iain
    November 8th, 2005 at 19:43 | #52

    Dave Ricardo,

    We are debating a matter of fact.

    Today the sun set in Brisbane at 6:10 – and it was not fully dark at 6:50. Plus it was fairly overcast this afternoon.

    In January when the sun sets at 6:50 – it will not be fully dark at 7:30. Come up and see for yourself. Then you will be better informed.

    And to be clear my point is – 7:30 is late enough – I don’t need nor want daylight saving to add another hour to this.

  53. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 19:57 | #53

    “Come up and see for yourself”

    For all you know, Iain, I might already be in Brisbane.

  54. Iain
    November 8th, 2005 at 20:06 | #54

    Whatever Dave –

    if you are fortunate enough to live in Brissie – get outside and enjoy the sun while it shines mate. There are more important things in this world than fiddling with your watch.

  55. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 20:11 | #55

    “There are more important things in this world than fiddling with your watch”

    I agree. But I’m still right and you’re still wrong.

  56. Brian Bahnisch
    November 8th, 2005 at 21:03 | #56

    Iain, I think you must be living on a west-facing hill. I saw the comments earlier and was particularly noticing last night and tonight. Last night was a bit cloudy and it was pretty dark at 6.30. Tonight was clearer, almost completely clear in the west. It was too dark to read outside at 6.30.

    I’ve been working outside for the last 14 years in Brisbane and I always reckon on it being too dark to see much half an hour after official sundown. My range is Enoggera to Upper Brookfield and I freely admit that the hills may have something to do with how quickly it turns dark.

  57. Brian Bahnisch
    November 8th, 2005 at 21:33 | #57

    As a matter of interest we have had two trial summers of daylight saving in Qld, once in the early 1970s and once in the early 1990s. I can take it or leave it.

    In the early 90s Goss had a committee look into it. They recommended carving out SEQ from Stanthorpe to Bundaberg to go DS and leave the rest. I still think this is the best solution if we are to have it. Goss’s mob put it to a referendum and we voted for the status quo.

    Recently there was a survey on the issue and Brisbane (not sure whether it was Bris or SEQ) polled (only) 60% for while the provinces polled 70% against. Beattie says he doesn’t mind if local authorities, as in the Gold Coast, make their own arrangements. I think the Whitsunday tourist islands have DS so the direct flights to from the south Proserpine would be unaffected by DS, but I’m not sure.

    I think the case for DS is strong south of the border and even stevens here in Brisvegas. It depends which part of the day you want to emphasise and for what purpose. Last year my young son was doing a lot of training for road racing. In summer the only rational time to do 2-3 hrs training is the coolest time of the day beginning at first light. So he could do his 90k or so on the bike and still be in time for school.

    We don’t have airconditioning, never will have, and live in a wooden house with an iron roof. It cools down at night. For me sleeping conditions are important and the best window is 12 midnight to 7am EST. You’d be surprised how much the house cools between 11pm and midnight.

    As against that I don’t like all the ABC radio schedules being rejigged twice a year.

    I think the Feds have a head of power to intervene under weights and measures legislation, but they wouldn’t dare. I reckon we should vote on it in SEQ with recent ‘mexicans’ disenfranchised. The bush can go jump for once if we decide on DS.

  58. November 8th, 2005 at 21:52 | #58

    For those with eyesight trouble, I remind you that I wrote that “almost all net takers from society” are in the pro daylight saving camp.

    I did NOT write “all those in the pro daylight saving camp are net takers from society”.

    You all just landed on a snake, & must slide back to Grade 4 primary school reading comprehension class!

  59. jquiggin
    November 8th, 2005 at 22:03 | #59

    Impressive double pike and backflip, Steve. On your current (re)interpretation, your description of the opposing sides would be correct if everyone except you supported daylight saving (I assume you’re a net contributor). I suppose you would still say “therefore the debate is over”.

  60. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 22:57 | #60

    “Those who oppose daylight saving are almost universally net contributors to society.”

    Such as people who live in the bush, per chance?

    Take out the varied and many handouts they receive (the Telstra boondoggle being but the latest, if not the greatest) and the net contributor claim looks wafer thin.

  61. November 9th, 2005 at 11:07 | #61

    Dave, people in the bush get it easy? Get lots of free goodies? Are “takers” from society? Wow, I presume you are moving further west to get some of the good life for yourself? ;-)

    JQ, no double piking or backflipping, are you confessing to dyslexia or to an inability to comprehend English?

  62. Dave Ricardo
    November 9th, 2005 at 11:50 | #62

    Steve, bushies, with a handful of exceptions, bludge on the wealth-creating parts of society, which is the cities.

    I couldn’t possibly lower myself to live like that.

  63. November 9th, 2005 at 12:45 | #63

    Dave, The bush comes in handy sometimes, ever heard of the following: Food, Coal, Oil, Clothing, Paper? Interestingly, one thing which doesn’t seem to come from the bush is pretentious poonces.

  64. jquiggin
    November 10th, 2005 at 07:39 | #64

    In the long run, I think the various cross-subsidies, including the historical protection of urban manufacturing, probably cancel out.

    We’ve all had lots of fun here, but let’s just agree that the whole idea that the issue of daylight saving divides people along producer/non-producer lines was a joke, and move on, before people start losing their tempers.

  65. Andy in aussie
    November 10th, 2005 at 14:40 | #65

    I personally like daylight savings, as it is nice to get home from work, have time to do things in the light, like BBQ, surfing, or walking, before it gets dark. i am in brisbane, and do appreciate the problems that the guys in the northern bits of the state have, but it does seem pretty silly that we can’t / wont politically accept having multiple time zones in the state. It is appropriate to have DS in the south, but not in the north.

    I’m from NZ, and in the summer it gets dark near ten in the south island. granted it isn’t as hot as in Mt Isa, but parents still manage to get their kids to bed without complaining. People make the most of the sunshine, and do all manner of recreation in the extra hour of light at the usable end of the day.

    I wake up with the sun, and have had to put up blackout curtains to stop myself getting woken up at an ungodly hour of the morning.

    I don’t think things will ever change, but i sure wish it would.

  66. November 10th, 2005 at 18:37 | #66

    Do any of these pro daylight saving mob have any idea just how hot it is in the summer daylight? That the hours of daylight are NOT a time of recreation, but a time of sweltering, washing the face in cool water & waiting for sundown so recreation may commence?

  67. Ian Gould
    November 10th, 2005 at 20:02 | #67

    Steve,

    Even been up around 5.00 AM in Brisbane in summer? It’s the best time of the day.

  68. November 10th, 2005 at 22:19 | #68

    Brisbane at 5am is great, especially of a Sunday morning (preferably just after rain). Don’t know why there aren’t more people up at that time of day. Without any doubt, the invention of the electric light was a great leap backward for the human soul.

  69. G NEWTON
    November 12th, 2005 at 11:32 | #69

    Ladies and gentlemen, it has been an eye-opener to witness the level of contentiousness with which this issue has been debated, not only on this particular site, but throughout QLD as a whole. Daylight saving is the subject of a documentary that is currently in the preliminary stages of production, and I, along with my partners, would like to invite you to take part by giving you the opportunity to put your views forward. If you would like to contribute your views regarding daylight savings in QLD please send us an email detailing your arguments. We will also be looking for interviewees on both sides of the DS debate as part of this production. You can make a difference! Please send your opinions to: [email protected] – and feel free to let your friends and family know too. Thank-you for your help – [G NEWTON]

  70. Mick
    November 27th, 2005 at 15:06 | #70

    Daylight saving is just another example of the dependence being bred into modern society on the welfare system – people who are so lazy they even need government assistance to get out of bed a bit earlier.

  71. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 15:51 | #71

    Mick,

    I am no advocate for the welfare state. However I think you are drawing a rather long bow in connecting daylight savings to welfare dependance.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  72. Ian Gould
    November 27th, 2005 at 16:27 | #72

    “I think you are drawing a rather long bow in connecting daylight savings to welfare dependance.”

    I half-expected you to link it to an argument to for the gold standard.

    Just kidding.

  73. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 17:35 | #73

    Ian,

    I am fairly certain that you are only half kidding. I suspect that you are actually just baiting me. I am sure you already know that Alan Greenspan linked the rise of the welfare state to the end of the gold standard. As have a lot of other prominant economic commentators. Any such assertion on my part would hardly be an origional or radical thought.

    http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan041998.html

    Of course my comment means that that I took your bait.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  74. Ian Gould
    November 27th, 2005 at 19:08 | #74

    No, no.

    I was expecting you to link daylight saving to the gold standard.

    And, of course, I’m joking.

  75. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 22:01 | #75

    Ian,

    QUOTE: I was expecting you to link daylight saving to the gold standard.

    RESPONSE: I could actually do that if required. However it would be a big stretch and we would all go home with a headache.

    QUOTE: And, of course, I’m joking.

    RESPONSE: And I was smiling.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  76. Ian Gould
    November 28th, 2005 at 07:52 | #76

    Personally, I blame John Howard and the war in Iraq for Queensland not having daylight saving.

  77. Terje
    November 28th, 2005 at 08:22 | #77

    Ian,

    So do I, but would Beazley be any different?

    Regards,
    Terje.

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