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For daylight saving

November 3rd, 2005

Mark Bahnisch comes out against daylight saving, arguing that, in Brisbane’s summer weather it’s better to finish work after sunset.

I’m generally in favour as I tend to wake up with the sun. Because Brisbane is so far east (we’re not far from Byron Bay), sunrise in summer is very early – it’s light before 5am. In some ways, that’s good (it’s a great time to get work done), but not if you want to stay up past about 9pm. It gets dark pretty early, around 6:30.

I suspect that daylight saving here does little more than restore the time in Brisbane to what it would be under “God’s time”, without time zones or other fiddles.

The problem is, of course, that the state is big in both directions. The tropics have very little seasonal variation in the length of the day, which makes daylight saving in summer nonsensical while the west has the opposite problem to Brisbane. But given that we have to have one time zone for the whole state (an internal border would be ludicrous), we should pick it to suit the majority, who live in the Southeast corner.

Of course, anyone who really doesn’t like daylight saving could leave their watch unchanged, stick to their old schedules as far as possible, and just bear in mind that everyone else is using a different time. The reverse is true in the present situation if you really like daylight saving.

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  1. jquiggin
    November 8th, 2005 at 18:21 | #1

    That would really confuse the class analysis, Andrew !

  2. Iain
    November 8th, 2005 at 19:43 | #2

    Dave Ricardo,

    We are debating a matter of fact.

    Today the sun set in Brisbane at 6:10 – and it was not fully dark at 6:50. Plus it was fairly overcast this afternoon.

    In January when the sun sets at 6:50 – it will not be fully dark at 7:30. Come up and see for yourself. Then you will be better informed.

    And to be clear my point is – 7:30 is late enough – I don’t need nor want daylight saving to add another hour to this.

  3. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 19:57 | #3

    “Come up and see for yourself”

    For all you know, Iain, I might already be in Brisbane.

  4. Iain
    November 8th, 2005 at 20:06 | #4

    Whatever Dave –

    if you are fortunate enough to live in Brissie – get outside and enjoy the sun while it shines mate. There are more important things in this world than fiddling with your watch.

  5. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 20:11 | #5

    “There are more important things in this world than fiddling with your watch”

    I agree. But I’m still right and you’re still wrong.

  6. Brian Bahnisch
    November 8th, 2005 at 21:03 | #6

    Iain, I think you must be living on a west-facing hill. I saw the comments earlier and was particularly noticing last night and tonight. Last night was a bit cloudy and it was pretty dark at 6.30. Tonight was clearer, almost completely clear in the west. It was too dark to read outside at 6.30.

    I’ve been working outside for the last 14 years in Brisbane and I always reckon on it being too dark to see much half an hour after official sundown. My range is Enoggera to Upper Brookfield and I freely admit that the hills may have something to do with how quickly it turns dark.

  7. Brian Bahnisch
    November 8th, 2005 at 21:33 | #7

    As a matter of interest we have had two trial summers of daylight saving in Qld, once in the early 1970s and once in the early 1990s. I can take it or leave it.

    In the early 90s Goss had a committee look into it. They recommended carving out SEQ from Stanthorpe to Bundaberg to go DS and leave the rest. I still think this is the best solution if we are to have it. Goss’s mob put it to a referendum and we voted for the status quo.

    Recently there was a survey on the issue and Brisbane (not sure whether it was Bris or SEQ) polled (only) 60% for while the provinces polled 70% against. Beattie says he doesn’t mind if local authorities, as in the Gold Coast, make their own arrangements. I think the Whitsunday tourist islands have DS so the direct flights to from the south Proserpine would be unaffected by DS, but I’m not sure.

    I think the case for DS is strong south of the border and even stevens here in Brisvegas. It depends which part of the day you want to emphasise and for what purpose. Last year my young son was doing a lot of training for road racing. In summer the only rational time to do 2-3 hrs training is the coolest time of the day beginning at first light. So he could do his 90k or so on the bike and still be in time for school.

    We don’t have airconditioning, never will have, and live in a wooden house with an iron roof. It cools down at night. For me sleeping conditions are important and the best window is 12 midnight to 7am EST. You’d be surprised how much the house cools between 11pm and midnight.

    As against that I don’t like all the ABC radio schedules being rejigged twice a year.

    I think the Feds have a head of power to intervene under weights and measures legislation, but they wouldn’t dare. I reckon we should vote on it in SEQ with recent ‘mexicans’ disenfranchised. The bush can go jump for once if we decide on DS.

  8. November 8th, 2005 at 21:52 | #8

    For those with eyesight trouble, I remind you that I wrote that “almost all net takers from society” are in the pro daylight saving camp.

    I did NOT write “all those in the pro daylight saving camp are net takers from society”.

    You all just landed on a snake, & must slide back to Grade 4 primary school reading comprehension class!

  9. jquiggin
    November 8th, 2005 at 22:03 | #9

    Impressive double pike and backflip, Steve. On your current (re)interpretation, your description of the opposing sides would be correct if everyone except you supported daylight saving (I assume you’re a net contributor). I suppose you would still say “therefore the debate is over”.

  10. Dave Ricardo
    November 8th, 2005 at 22:57 | #10

    “Those who oppose daylight saving are almost universally net contributors to society.”

    Such as people who live in the bush, per chance?

    Take out the varied and many handouts they receive (the Telstra boondoggle being but the latest, if not the greatest) and the net contributor claim looks wafer thin.

  11. November 9th, 2005 at 11:07 | #11

    Dave, people in the bush get it easy? Get lots of free goodies? Are “takers” from society? Wow, I presume you are moving further west to get some of the good life for yourself? ;-)

    JQ, no double piking or backflipping, are you confessing to dyslexia or to an inability to comprehend English?

  12. Dave Ricardo
    November 9th, 2005 at 11:50 | #12

    Steve, bushies, with a handful of exceptions, bludge on the wealth-creating parts of society, which is the cities.

    I couldn’t possibly lower myself to live like that.

  13. November 9th, 2005 at 12:45 | #13

    Dave, The bush comes in handy sometimes, ever heard of the following: Food, Coal, Oil, Clothing, Paper? Interestingly, one thing which doesn’t seem to come from the bush is pretentious poonces.

  14. jquiggin
    November 10th, 2005 at 07:39 | #14

    In the long run, I think the various cross-subsidies, including the historical protection of urban manufacturing, probably cancel out.

    We’ve all had lots of fun here, but let’s just agree that the whole idea that the issue of daylight saving divides people along producer/non-producer lines was a joke, and move on, before people start losing their tempers.

  15. Andy in aussie
    November 10th, 2005 at 14:40 | #15

    I personally like daylight savings, as it is nice to get home from work, have time to do things in the light, like BBQ, surfing, or walking, before it gets dark. i am in brisbane, and do appreciate the problems that the guys in the northern bits of the state have, but it does seem pretty silly that we can’t / wont politically accept having multiple time zones in the state. It is appropriate to have DS in the south, but not in the north.

    I’m from NZ, and in the summer it gets dark near ten in the south island. granted it isn’t as hot as in Mt Isa, but parents still manage to get their kids to bed without complaining. People make the most of the sunshine, and do all manner of recreation in the extra hour of light at the usable end of the day.

    I wake up with the sun, and have had to put up blackout curtains to stop myself getting woken up at an ungodly hour of the morning.

    I don’t think things will ever change, but i sure wish it would.

  16. November 10th, 2005 at 18:37 | #16

    Do any of these pro daylight saving mob have any idea just how hot it is in the summer daylight? That the hours of daylight are NOT a time of recreation, but a time of sweltering, washing the face in cool water & waiting for sundown so recreation may commence?

  17. Ian Gould
    November 10th, 2005 at 20:02 | #17

    Steve,

    Even been up around 5.00 AM in Brisbane in summer? It’s the best time of the day.

  18. November 10th, 2005 at 22:19 | #18

    Brisbane at 5am is great, especially of a Sunday morning (preferably just after rain). Don’t know why there aren’t more people up at that time of day. Without any doubt, the invention of the electric light was a great leap backward for the human soul.

  19. G NEWTON
    November 12th, 2005 at 11:32 | #19

    Ladies and gentlemen, it has been an eye-opener to witness the level of contentiousness with which this issue has been debated, not only on this particular site, but throughout QLD as a whole. Daylight saving is the subject of a documentary that is currently in the preliminary stages of production, and I, along with my partners, would like to invite you to take part by giving you the opportunity to put your views forward. If you would like to contribute your views regarding daylight savings in QLD please send us an email detailing your arguments. We will also be looking for interviewees on both sides of the DS debate as part of this production. You can make a difference! Please send your opinions to: [email protected] – and feel free to let your friends and family know too. Thank-you for your help – [G NEWTON]

  20. Mick
    November 27th, 2005 at 15:06 | #20

    Daylight saving is just another example of the dependence being bred into modern society on the welfare system – people who are so lazy they even need government assistance to get out of bed a bit earlier.

  21. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 15:51 | #21

    Mick,

    I am no advocate for the welfare state. However I think you are drawing a rather long bow in connecting daylight savings to welfare dependance.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  22. Ian Gould
    November 27th, 2005 at 16:27 | #22

    “I think you are drawing a rather long bow in connecting daylight savings to welfare dependance.”

    I half-expected you to link it to an argument to for the gold standard.

    Just kidding.

  23. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 17:35 | #23

    Ian,

    I am fairly certain that you are only half kidding. I suspect that you are actually just baiting me. I am sure you already know that Alan Greenspan linked the rise of the welfare state to the end of the gold standard. As have a lot of other prominant economic commentators. Any such assertion on my part would hardly be an origional or radical thought.

    http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan041998.html

    Of course my comment means that that I took your bait.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  24. Ian Gould
    November 27th, 2005 at 19:08 | #24

    No, no.

    I was expecting you to link daylight saving to the gold standard.

    And, of course, I’m joking.

  25. Terje Petersen
    November 27th, 2005 at 22:01 | #25

    Ian,

    QUOTE: I was expecting you to link daylight saving to the gold standard.

    RESPONSE: I could actually do that if required. However it would be a big stretch and we would all go home with a headache.

    QUOTE: And, of course, I’m joking.

    RESPONSE: And I was smiling.

    Regards,
    Terje.

  26. Ian Gould
    November 28th, 2005 at 07:52 | #26

    Personally, I blame John Howard and the war in Iraq for Queensland not having daylight saving.

  27. Terje
    November 28th, 2005 at 08:22 | #27

    Ian,

    So do I, but would Beazley be any different?

    Regards,
    Terje.

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