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Weekend reflections

August 29th, 2009

It’s time again for weekend reflections, which makes space for longer than usual comments on any topic. As always, civilised discussion and no coarse language.

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  1. Rationalist
    August 29th, 2009 at 08:22 | #1
  2. philip travers
    August 29th, 2009 at 10:35 | #2

    I’ve followed the link you gave to a Holocaust denial site. You’re permanently banned with immediate effect – JQ

  3. PeterS
    August 29th, 2009 at 10:49 | #3

    As I understand it, the “cheaper books” are remaindered by the original bookseller and returned to the publisher who writes them off, presumably accepting a tax loss and paying no royalty to the author.
    If we accept them to be sold in Australia, are we not accessories to fraud?

  4. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 29th, 2009 at 10:58 | #4

    Peters, I can’t say for certain but normally resellers have to pay a restocking fee if items are returned.

  5. Salient Green
    August 29th, 2009 at 11:26 | #5

    ‘high rices for books’? what utter rubbish. Just look at two of the names amongst that list – woolworths and coles – that should tell you it’s a coalition of shonks and both care not a whit if Australian money goes overseas as long as they are making fatter profits.

    And 12% cheaper? Whoopee, that’s gonna make me squeal the tyres all the way to woolies to get me a whole stack of $35 books for $31. You can bet that they will pocket most of the difference in price between imported and locally made books.

    I do wonder though why they can’t protect many more other sectors from cheap imports.

  6. ken n
    August 29th, 2009 at 14:20 | #6

    Remember, folks, that the argument is about books first published overseas – in most cases not by Australian authors – and that local publishers are claiming a monopoly right to reprint here (if it’s B&W) or in Singapore (if it’s colour). Those local publishers are usually the local subsidiaries of overseas publishers (owned by Rupert Murdoch and the like).
    Somehow, they have convinced Australian writers that local books are cross-subsidized from the monopoly profits they get from the overseas material.
    If Murdoch told you this would you believe him?
    Maintenance of the monopoly will drive more business to Amazon and the other overseas online retailers. I am a heavy buyer of books. I’d rather buy from Gleebooks but go to Amazon if there is a significant price difference.

  7. Donald Oats
    August 29th, 2009 at 21:12 | #7

    Like you Ken, I’ve been a heavy buyer of books (and still am):

    My book buying practices depend in detail upon which mob can supply the title and quickly. When it comes to technical stuff like dynamical systems, differential geometry, singularity theory etc, the choice is Amazon – most of the good stuff is not available locally and in any case, the big book stores generally say “I’m afraid it is not available” which really means “go away.”

    For titles that are more in the realm of philosophy, ethics, general layperson science and astronomy, etc I’ve usually gone to the small bookshops in preference to Borders and the like. In Sydney my favourites were Gleebooks, Abbeys, and then the Unibooks. Dymocks, Borders, A&R were down the list a bit.

    Personally I think authors should gain more for their efforts, but I’m utterly perplexed how that might come about.

  8. Alice
    August 30th, 2009 at 11:34 | #8

    @Donald Oats
    Don – I love Dial a book – second hand bookshop at Narrabeen. You need ladders and all the place is so stuffed to the rafters with books…and I love the little old lady who runs it. She knows so much about books and if they dont have a title you suggest even beyond 50 years old – she searches the internet for you…and can give you a price if she finds it..she is a national treasure.

  9. Michael of Summer Hill
    August 30th, 2009 at 15:41 | #9

    John, today Glenn Milne reports that the big swinging dick Minchin should be rewarded for going into bat on Turnbull’s side. But I’m not sure rewarding Minchin is a good thing even if he was able to settle the flapping chooks.

  10. MH
    August 30th, 2009 at 18:26 | #10

    Little piece at Lavartus Prodeo caught my eye this week:


    Looking at the sea level rise graph I was reminded of graphs for stability in aerodynamic design. The graphs read another way therefore, indicated to me periods of disturbance, the wiggly lines showing positive dynamic stability (tendency to return to a stable state after the disturbance or displacement) but the shifts upwards over time are accompanied by a change to a new state of equilibrium followed by further wobbles (more displacement forces). Since about 1998 the lines diverge from the last or previous equilibrium and appear linear with increasing amplitude, they now appear remarkably like the graphs for dynamic instability, that is to say the divergence is now increasing and may not return to a new equilibrium. Translated – what ever was controlling or preventing instability is no longer applicable, I think this may be then evidence of the so called hypothetical ‘tipping point’. In other words a state of being out of control. When aircraft do this they crash. Most frightening graphs of the state of our planet I have ever seen.

  11. Donald Oats
    August 30th, 2009 at 23:26 | #11


    Wish I’d come across that bookshop while still in Sydney – sounds interesting! We have a secondhand bookshop here in Murray Bridge, but it’s not in the same league as the bookshops in Sydney.

    I mentioned it in another post somewhere, but I’ll do so here as well. More supporting evidence that global warming may be contributing to SE Australia’s drought. Meanwhile, Carter, Plimer, and several other Nationals affiliated clowns keep having roadshows throughout rural Australia, at which they claim to know the Earth better than anyone else, and spout the usual denialist claptrap.

  12. August 31st, 2009 at 16:30 | #12

    Just writing to alert readers to the two most recent entries for the ‘Left Focus’ blog.

    The most recent entry is an analysis of the health care debate in the US by American writer Wes Bishop…

    The immediately prior entry is a consideration of arguments surrounding reform of the pension system in Australia…

    For this material – and more – you’re all welcome to drop into Left Focus, browse our archive – and comment..

    see: http://leftfocus.blogspot.com/

    Kind and sincere regards,


  13. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 06:19 | #13

    John, today accusations have been made against John Della Bosca having an extramarital affair with a 26-year-old woman. No nose tells me it’s a beat up story. But then I could be wrong.

  14. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 10:28 | #14

    John, it seems like Tim Andrews is of the same opinion that it is nobodies business as to where John Della Bosca parks his car so long as he does his job.

  15. September 1st, 2009 at 14:09 | #15

    Looks like Della-Bosca disagrees with you as he has resigned.

  16. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 18:50 | #16

    Andrew Reynolds, it is hard to keep something like this under wraps for such a long time without becoming public knowledge. As for what is fact and/or fiction I have no idea but like Time Andrews, what happens between two consenting adults is their own affair. However, I do believe there is much more to the whole affair than the beat up stories making the rounds today and in the meantime I’ll eat humble pie.

  17. September 1st, 2009 at 19:20 | #17

    I would agree that as long as it does not affect his job performance it is no-one’s business but his, his partner and the third (or any other) parties’.
    I think it was just that this was after a few other incidents, not this one in isolation.

  18. nanks
    September 1st, 2009 at 19:41 | #18

    I think personal behaviour reflects character. It is from personal behaviour that we derive or infer character.
    The idea that one can be a complete creep or deceptive or saintly or whatever in some major component of one’s life and that in no way impacts upon, or is indicative of, one’s behaviour in general flies in the face of reason and experience.

  19. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 19:59 | #19

    Well – what does everyone think about Della Bosca???

    I say good riddance but I cant help admiring the “sting” and Im sure it was a sting….maybe a liberal party sting. It ahs all the hallmarks. 26 year old entices ageing Della!
    Im convivced….and the reason I am convinced is because an old school friend married (very well) an executive from a media company that did a lot work for the liberal party…well, the story I heard at my school reunion involved a very well paid well dressed young *** attractive woma who managed to convince state Labor ministerial moguls that after some wining and dining that she was a) wealthy b) interested in investing in the cross city tunnel project but c) needed to see the documents…..
    from there the docs went to the media of course!!

    If they fall for it, they are morally compromised and have no ethics anyway but Im utterly convinced it was a sting!!. Good riddance to Della Bosca and his vestige of arrogance that made him part of the “mates state.” Hasnt he already given up work to visit his new friend? Didnt he already have a drink driving charge (and a drink shouting charge at Iguana’s??)

    4 down – two to go (Obeid and Tripodi) and the rest are finished anyway.

  20. September 1st, 2009 at 19:59 | #20

    Perhaps, nanks – and I think that in Della-Bosca’s case it is the repeated errors that did it, rather than any one issue. Marital infidelity, though, can stem from many issues most of which are, and should be, private.

  21. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:02 | #21

    Nanks, until all the facts are known it is hard to pass judgement on anyone especially as to what is going on in the top paddock or their personal behaviour given we all have different traits.

  22. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:06 | #22

    @Andrew Reynolds
    Andy and Moshie – you are both so sweet but both so naive…..(this should remain private between two persons etc)…it was never paid for to remain private is my take on this!

  23. nanks
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:07 | #23

    @Michael of Summer Hill
    exactly Michael – some people have a greater than normal tendency to be deceptive as one of their traits. Recognising that in no way precludes compassion. I am of course not referring to any one individual.

  24. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:12 | #24

    You know…its interesting watching this party implode but I cant help thinking they have brought it all on themselves. Sartor is finished now as well over his planning deals with developers and how long has the community suspected that????? (quite rightly too – developers have been in State Labors back pocket for years). Keneally thought she could just follow in his (Sartor’s) footsteps of doing deals with developers, and their donations, but she cant and its about time.

    Nah – good riddance to self interested rubbish.

  25. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:12 | #25

    Alice, that is exactly what I have been arguing that it is no-bodies business as to what two consenting adults get up to.

  26. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:14 | #26

    Id kill to be a fly on the wall and find out how the Daily Telgraph got the scoop!

  27. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:27 | #27

    There is a lesson in here somwhere for politicians…if they want to play the dirty game of politics they need to make sure they are super clean and thats how it should be.

  28. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:29 | #28

    Nanks, I don’t quite agree with deception for it implies people have an ulterior motive, continuosly tell fibs and make up things. In the Della Bosca sexgate already there are conficting statements as to the truth and it is the unknown which is unknown.

  29. TerjeP (say tay-a)
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:44 | #29

    On Della Bosca I think his private life is his own business. So long as it does not interfere with his day job he can, as far as I’m concerned, have sleeping arrangements with 15 mistresses and a goat so long at they all consent and clean up afterwards.

    In terms of books I think import restrictions are just silly. The doom arguments being made against the lifting of parallel import restrictions are all much the same as the ones made before the last government removed parallel import restrictions on CDs. The subsequent reality after those restrictions were removed demonstrated that the doom and gloom wasn’t realistic. At the end of the day I don’t know why anybody would support laws that profits private companies by excluding competition and making consumers pay more.

    Previous discussion on the book imports topic was had here:-


  30. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 20:51 | #30

    @TerjeP (say tay-a)
    eww Terje. 15 mistresses and a goat? I dont anyone like that running the country!!

  31. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:04 | #31

    Alice, maybe Della Bosca was naive but not a goat for if Nanks is correct then it was a setup.

  32. TerjeP (say tay-a)
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:12 | #32

    Alice – would the “eww” factor lead you to impeach a president that likes inserting cigars into interns?

  33. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:40 | #33

    Yes – he can go too Terje – but still it wasnt as bad as launching Iraq on taxpayers funds a premise of shonky lies and presiding over massive deregulation of banks and giving war contracts to mates like Halliburton was it now? They both can go!!!

  34. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:41 | #34

    I still just want to know how the Daily Telegraph got the scoop…follow the paper (money) trail….

  35. Alice
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:44 | #35

    @TerjeP (say tay-a)
    Terje…….double the ewwwww. At least Kennedy had mistresses but such is the intrusive nature of the media these days, we now get to hear about the stains and all!!

  36. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:54 | #36

    Alice, if Nanks is correct about the setup then it is not too hard to work out where the money is coming from given the continuous rhetoric, innuendos and propaganda being propagated against NSW Labor.

  37. nanks
    September 1st, 2009 at 21:59 | #37

    @Michael of Summer Hill
    Michael – I think you may have misunderstood me – I didn’t mean to imply any setup.

  38. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 1st, 2009 at 22:42 | #38

    Nanks, I apologise but it does look like John Della Bosca has been setup.

  39. TerjeP (say tay-a)
    September 2nd, 2009 at 00:04 | #39

    Alice – yes the media is intrusive. You seem to be saying that you’re happy for people who participate in weird sexual activities to run the country so long as you don’t know about those weird sexual activities. This seems to be a triumph of symbolism. Essentially leaders don’t need to be nice decent reliable family type people so long as they look like nice decent family type people. I find this attitude a bit repugnant. In my book a given sexual activity is either relevant and should be scrutinised or else it is irrelevant and should generally be ignored. When it comes to sexual affairs such as the one that Della Bosca apparently engaged in I think it ought to be regarded as a personal matter. Of course I know that for many it won’t be but I’d hope they are not so shallow as to judge him unacceptable for office simply because he couldn’t avoid getting caught.

  40. Alice
    September 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 | #40

    @TerjeP (say tay-a)
    Terje …you said this about me “You seem to be saying that you’re happy for people who participate in weird sexual activities to run the country so long as you don’t know about those weird sexual activities.”

    That is such a long call. Id rather they behaved themselves to be honest!!

  41. Alice
    September 2nd, 2009 at 10:33 | #41

    nah – Della’s affair is no longer personal and I suspect it was a set up anyway, but I still think Della is on old fool and as they say… there is no fool like an old fool….extrapolating on that… no old fool should be running the country in government….

    Now Terje…I couldnt be plainer could I??? Pack your bags Della and move on..!!

  42. Alice
    September 2nd, 2009 at 15:29 | #42

    Anyway Terje…quite seriously could anyone imagine Fatty OBarrell getting up to this nonsense…really? I cant.

    Its just another (yet another) indicator of exactly how low the individuals in this State Govt have sunk and exactly how long they think they have been smart, pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes…there is one face for the media and they have probably been laughing over their long lunches, trysts, development deals done with mates, kickbacks, and all sorts of “what can I get out of being a NSW politician.” Really , we know who they are (just in case the Della Boscas ask the question again)…its a workshop for every crooked crim pollie that seeks advancement by belonging to State Labor. Its not about government and its not about the people of NSW. Its about bulldozers, Bull…. donations and deals for the party and individuals on the inside.

    If Rees had any morals (because most of the party clearly dont) he would call an election AND NOW. I want my vote to say good riddance to them (and they can take their developer mates and shonky PPS deals and spin with them).

  43. Fran Barlow
    September 2nd, 2009 at 16:06 | #43

    I don’t really care who Della Bosca is on with, but he surely knows the rules of the game and knew that if this came out in this context it would be curtains for his ambitions. That does seem to suggest that he likes putting it about a lot more than being in government, or is at best most unwise. Either way, it doesn’t recommend him. And why was he bragging about it? Pretty tacky if you ask me.

    The repulsive thing is that the choices seem to be limited to the vacuous and reactionary O’Farrell or the utterly toxic ALP. We have a government that seems bent on making it impossible for anyone but for the most tribal of the party faithful to vote for it, and an opposition that guesses, probably correctly, that most people (or at any rate plenty enough) that it can get votes on nothing more than that they aren’t the clowns in power. As people know I feel strongly that my policy of not voting at all is entirely justified and once again it is affirmed with knobs on here. I live in greg Smith’s electorate so even if I didn’t it would make not a scrap of difference. If O’Farrell can’t get Epping in this climate, my vote won’t make any difference. And if he does, then the same applies.

    For the life of me I can’t understand why when Rees got the job he didn’t simply rule a line throught the scoresheet and declare that the Carr/Iemma/Costa days were a horrible mistake which he planned to rectify so as to position himself as a make or break reformer of the culture and a return to core labour concerns and enthusiastic environmentalism. It’s hard to believe that if he’d followed this strategy that he’d have wound up in a worse position than he is now. A lot of people would have hoped for such a thing. At worst he’d have had some enthusiastic footsoldiers who could have put up a defence that the government’s program was worth fighting for. And if he had gone down swinging at least he could have blamed somebody else and declared he’d fought the good fight.

    But no … his cabinet was stacked with egregious reactionaries like Della Bosca and Roozendale and Tripodi and Sartor and dimwits like that chap dancing in hs undies. It beggars belief.

  44. Alice
    September 2nd, 2009 at 16:47 | #44

    @Fran Barlow
    Fran asks why didnt Rees rule a line through the scoresheet??/ Because its obvious Rees is a puppet but the puppet masters of “lets look after the mates” are still there pulling his strings…same old same old. Im voting to destabilise the bastards. Roozendahl is still there. Obeid is still there. Tripodi is still there. Keneally is a puppet who knows the words “yes masters”. Tebbutt has been silenced, long ago and doesnt stand for a thing except the word “yes masters”.
    Horrible – the lot of them. NSW State Labor embeds a system of corruption that long ago needed cleaning out (either that or grow a brain…pretty damn hard for that sorry lot).

  45. September 2nd, 2009 at 23:15 | #45

    Is there really much point in discussing the fine points of public policy when mega-immigration levels are more or less sticking the country in permanent grid-lock for all basic public services?

    I know why Howard was keen on ramping up immigration. He didnt give much more than a toss about global warming. And he knew the best way to reward the Big End of Town is to pack them to the rafters. Drives down wages in sweat-shops, ramp up rents for slum-lords and keep the degree-mills churning.

    But why do self-styled “social-democrats” calmly accept and even applaud crushing the living standards of the native-born working class? Not to mention the rampant despoilation of the dwindling green and pleasant parts of our urban fringe.

    Evans is still determined to overload the boat to capsizing levels. In the midst of a recession, global warming and a housing crisis he aims to keep permanent migration running at about 250,000 pa. Thats more than one percent of total population, more than twice the post-war average rate. At least the Hun bothers to notice:

    THE Federal Government is set to maintain record high immigration levels, despite growing concern about the impact on young job seekers and urban congestion.

    The Rudd Government has admitted it wants to bring in up to 230,000 migrants annually over the next 40 years, according to a new Immigration Department report on skilled arrivals.

    But thats only half the picture, as the issue of special visas (student and work) are running at about the same level, around 300,000 pa all up. Add in Kiwis, overstaying back-packers and illegal immigrants and we have about 600,000 new bodies pa to accommodate. Minus annual emigration of about 100,000. Still leaves about 500,000 net additions to the population pa, by my reckoning. Sheehan does the math:

    Senator Chris Evans, issued a press release stating, among other things: “The use of 457 visas to employ temporary skilled migrant workers has grown rapidly in recent years. A total of 39,500 subclass 457 visas was granted in 2003-04 compared with an expected 100,000 places in each of 2007-08 and 2008-09.” That is a 150 per cent increase in four years.

    Did you know the number of overseas students coming to Australia is also at a record high, with 228,592 student visas granted in 2006-07, a 20 per cent increase over the previous year?

    The immigration figures quoted above do not even include New Zealanders, who are not counted as part of Australia’s annual migration program, nor do they include people who have overstayed their visas. Add another 50,000 or so people

    500,000 extra mouths to feed, bodies to shelter and minds to educate pa, beyond the more or less stabilised native born population. Year-in year-out as far as the eye can see. Pity the poor public transport user or long-range commuter. And this kind of rampant growth is going pummelling our dwindling stocks or water, un-carbonised air, top-soil and green space.

    Its also turning into a political time bomb. Immigration was on the nose with the populus under the regime of the Theophanoid Left. Howard managed to restore sanity over the nineties. But now the Business Council Right is calling the shots, and once again the public is getting antsy:

    A major poll taken after the latest federal election revealed growing concern about high migration, with more than 40 per cent of Victorians wanting it cut.

    This was way above the 27 per cent who wanted a reduction during a 2004 survey. It is believed that rising concern about jobs, urban congestion and water shortages is driving negative attitudes towards migration.

    Mark my words, we are building a powder-key here, especially given the evident signs that social fabric is wearing. I predict some kind of nativist xenophobic reaction over the next few years.

  46. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 00:20 | #46

    Jack Strocchi, immigration is not the problem it is greater equality.

  47. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 00:47 | #47

    Jack Strocchi, the above should read greater inequality and not greater equality for it is the growing disparity between those who are well off & those on the bread line which Federal Labor has failed to address so far.

  48. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 06:43 | #48

    @Michael of Summer Hill
    Michael and Jack on immigration.
    Jack has a point re immigration but I suggest its immigration without any investment by government in accommodating infrastructure that is also the problem. If you look at teh 1800s waves of immigration after the goldrush the government was busy building rail networks, telegraph, ports, water facilities and public buildings across the country. Whats insidious about modern infrastructure is exactly that – a distinct lack of public accommodating investment. Immigrants cant go to State Rail or the Sydney water to get jobs. There is nothing that is guaranteed by way of government employment and yes, without that it does ramp down wages (as Jack suggested John Howard would have most liked for his big business friends and I agree).
    Instead we have Joe Hockey now wanting to slam the long term investment implied in the budget deficit for all he is worth BUT which the business lobby groups say is overdue and sorely needed. There is no point packing people here to the rafters if you have no government planning and invfrastructure to deal adequately with the new immigration effect on population numbers. That is not a recipe to get any “boost” from immigration but only a recipe to burden existing systems to breakdown point.
    Its not the immigration Jack – its the lack of expansion of the social infrastructure needed to cope with that immigration.

  49. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 07:05 | #49

    I cant help laughing at one letter to the editor today that reads

    “now, if only we could find someone to sleep with Joe Tripodi…”

  50. TerjeP (say tay-a)
    September 3rd, 2009 at 07:36 | #50

    Jack has a point re immigration but I suggest its immigration without any investment by government in accommodating infrastructure that is also the problem.

    The solution is to replace immigration quotas with an immigration tariff. Instead of setting a number of immigrants that we will accept each year we should set a price for immigrating to Australia. The tariff would moderate the flow in similar ways to a quota but it would also raise revenue for public infrastructure and elliminate waiting periods for immigrants. It would also allow humanitarian groups to provide residency in Australia to those that it thinks really need it by buying passage. Obviously some basic conditionality on immigrants such as health and criminal background checks should remain in place.

  51. nanks
    September 3rd, 2009 at 08:52 | #51

    We could have an auction.

  52. nanks
    September 3rd, 2009 at 09:10 | #52

    Better still would be to open citizenship up to the market completely on an annual basis. The State could offer a certain number of places – say 25,000,000 – and they could go to the highest bidder. The returns from the auction could be used in lieu of taxation.
    A similar scheme could be put in place for business – although it would only be fair to offer businesses a 5 year ticket due to their increased need for certainty.

  53. Donald Oats
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:01 | #53

    Alice :I cant help laughing at one letter to the editor today that reads
    “now, if only we could find someone to sleep with Joe Tripodi…”

    Sartor, maybe? OMG LOLTH – COTN!

  54. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 | #54

    Alice & TerjeP (say tay-a), I’m not sure where you both live but since the 1980s a lot of migrants have invested in businesses and breathed life into suburbia which was more or less was dead. The current problem is Federal Labor and their failed policies in marginalising those living on the breadline. Instead of giving a helping hand the Rudd government turns a blind eye.

  55. Donald Oats
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 | #55

    Immigration at these rates is one reason we need to privatise schools, roads (as in big Mac model in NSW), water (well done Brown, Olsen, SA Liberals, and sundry other state governments of the day), universities by stealth (HECS fees and o/s student income funding permanent jobs, equipment and facilities, and research for industry cash as in big pharma – see vioxx for what can go wrong), etc. The poor old public purse can’t keep up with this government problem of its own making.

    If only one government had the mettle to limit immigration to a level well below the Aussie birth rate. Say 100K per annum, spread around the country. That covers a reasonable number of refugees, still allows some professional mobility, and student visas are simply that.

    We have some serious problems confronting the nation; we simply can’t keep keep focus on those problems – many of them environmental and human clashes – while importing so many people per annum, which only increases the scale of the problems.

    Still trying to work out what would attract a young female to Della Bosca; was it his perfect complexion, or his tall stature, or his strong performances in parliament…

  56. Donald Oats
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:22 | #56

    @Donald Oats
    Sorry – most of first paragraph was tongue-in-cheek: I’m not an advocate of privatisation in case anyone thinks otherwise.

  57. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:27 | #57

    @Michael of Summer Hill
    Moshie – you cant be serious…its State Labor that is “shambolic.” Rudd is doing a reasonable job…do you want the tightwads back? BTW…how much did the future fund lose while the libs keep crowing about investing our surpluses in the shambolic sharemarkets in stead of much needed and overdue infrastructure??….(hmm I like that word)

  58. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:29 | #58

    @Donald Oats
    Oh Don ….marriage made in hell!! You might hard pushed to find a partner for either of them….how about Obeid? Any takers out there??

  59. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:32 | #59

    Ive got an idea for a great new game show
    “State Labor politicians seek a mistress”…roll up and audition now! Except they should change the rules…the first time a woman says “ewwwwwww no” the politician gets kicked off the show.

  60. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 | #60

    No Alice, much of what I’m saying is inline with the ACTU & other compassionate like minded people.

  61. Fran Barlow
    September 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 | #61

    @Alice [Della Bosca]

    That’s as may be Alice. he could have insisted and challenged them to sack him immediately.

    Then, if they do and if the ALP is wiped out — which seems likely, he can be the clean skin to step in and guide the ALP back to power in 2015 or at worst 2019 …

  62. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 | #62

    @Michael of Summer Hill
    Moshie…you are dreaming and so is the ACTU. What disconnect is there when Roozendahl is still on his podium crowing about yet another privatisation and sale of state silver which stands to lose these incompetent bunglers another 50 mill a year…and wipe out small businesses like newsagents which are probably already suffering from online content (as newspapers are). What is Roozendahl after – handing another swathe of small business over to a large business (getting some kickback) and taking yet another regular income stream away from Govt?? They are right wing fanatics in NSW State Labor and they atre totally disconnected from the mood of the people and the direction that fed labor is travelling which is…in the direction of longer term govt investment.
    Moshie – you and the ACTU are dreaming if you think they stand a chance of getting back in. Its from madness to insanity. I dont think you get it – the electorate finds State Labor and their deals badly on the nose because they are.

  63. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 12:03 | #63

    No Alice, as pointed out today in the SMH ‘for too long the people of NSW have been starved of intelligent opposition’. Thumbs up Rees.

  64. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 16:00 | #64

    John, there has been a serious setback in Middle-eastern politics which may have major ramifications throughout the region. Reports indicate that the previously classified illegal settlements in the West bank have retrospectively become legal as a result of two separate Israeli court cases handed down this week and a slap in the face to Obama’s efforts in bringing peace to the region.

  65. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 18:23 | #65

    John, today Bob Ellis is his usual self in Crikey describing how John Della Bosca’s elevation in joining a long list of upstanding citizens is mucha ado about nothing and gives the Telegraph a poke in the eye.

  66. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 19:59 | #66

    Thumbs down Rees. Thumbs down NSW Labor. Give the people of NSW a vote now. Im not even a conservative voter but I know a bad party when I see one (in fact I know ten years of false ideology embedded in a state political party when I see it Moshie…they, NSW Labor, are lost).

  67. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 21:20 | #67

    Alice, today’s ‘no confidence’’ motion in the Rees Government was a real fizzer defeated 52 to 36 votes. However, Alice if you have a Ministers’ guide to surviving sex scandals then please forward it to John Della Bosca not Rees. Thumbs up Rees.

  68. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 21:41 | #68

    Moshie…you do my head in!

  69. Alice
    September 3rd, 2009 at 21:48 | #69

    @Donald Oats
    Don – no need to wonder – it was the pay checque from the media relations firm and then the sale of the story. Ask not why she was attracted to Della but ask who paid and why a laptop was seen smuggled out of her house wrapped in a blanket to the SMH….wait for it…poor Della’s emails to his “mistress” are going to be plastered in the papers. Thats worth money. It wouldnt surprise me. Its almost enough to make you feel sorry for him isnt it?. I cant remember the last time I saw a cartoon of a politician in their underpants…I seem to recall there might have been a strange incident involving Malcolm Fraser in his underpants in a hotel lobby in the US??

  70. Michael of Summer Hill
    September 3rd, 2009 at 22:03 | #70

    Alice, I believe Professor Rodney Tiffen will have a piece entitled Ministers’ guide to surviving sex scandals in tomorrow’s SMH. Have a good night’s sleep.

  71. Freelander
    September 4th, 2009 at 10:29 | #71

    An interesting link looking back to a time when there were still people in republican party worthy of admiration: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/opinion/03blumenthal.html?em

  72. CJ
    September 4th, 2009 at 10:32 | #72

    Watched Q and A last night. Panel included Heffernan and some chap from the Institute of Public Affairs. Both Heffernan and the IPA chap made arguments that I found interesting – interesting because of the angle used to push Heffernan’s and the IPA’s preferred policies. I’m wondering if they’ve found a new argument…

    When a question was put to the panel about emissions from agriculture, Heffernan replied that we have a moral obligation to support and promote Australian agriculture to feed the growing global population and to ensure that everyone reaches a comparable level of food security and nutrition to that enjoyed in Australia. Heffernan was pushing agriculture in northern Australia, and the turning of rivers to the inland, a position that he has long been advocating.

    Another question to the panel was about the development of a gas processing plant on the Kimberley coast. The IPA chap argued that we had a moral obligation to ensure that people around the world enjoyed energy security. He asserted that a decision to conserve the Kimberley coast by preventing the gas development would condemn people in developing countries to fuels which cause cancer and suffocation.

    Both the IPA and Heffernan used similar arguments about coal exports.

    I find this argument (ie. one premised on moral obligations to the needy) an interesting approach for Heffernan and the right. Any comments?

  73. Freelander
    September 4th, 2009 at 20:06 | #73

    I think the explanation is that there is money in selling food. I don’t think they suggested giving it away. Also, the IPA and people like Heffernan often use these types of arguments less out of concern for the underprivileged and more as a tactic to disarm those they are debating with who do have moral concerns. The usual libertarian position on ‘moral obligation’ is that you only have the obligation not to do harm to others (without their agreement). Otherwise, you don’t have any obligation to prevent harm happening to others. You don’t even have the obligation not to exploit people. If a drug addict wants to buy a fix, or a destitute person wants to sell a kidney (or two), no problem. If a gambling addict is flush with money usher them into your casino. If you come across someone lost and needing help in the forest you have no moral obligation to provide assistance if you were not the person responsible for their plight.

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