40 thoughts on “Monday message board

  1. PrQ,
    When you said “…[r]ead a good micro text or chapter 4 of my book” were you stating by inference that chapter 4 of your book is not a “good micro text” or have I missed something?

  2. AR, my book isn’t a textbook – it just covers index number theory in the interests of providing a self-contained coverage of the micro reform debate.

  3. good point Dave,
    come back and say something about Wednesday night and of course how liberal thought is reducing productivity and how this all links to the Muslims’ attack on Israel!!!

  4. Hope you are right Steve at the Pub. Mind you, there are many who would just like the conditions of full-timers on the basis of the amount of the time worked. Wouldn’t that be moving towards a level playing field? With the exception of Super,which is a grant from the lesser worked,to one part of the undeserving financial sector.

  5. THE AGE’s website is maintaining this evening (“Protesters turn out for IR rally”) that “up to 175,000 protesters” took part in this morning’s rally in Melbourne’s CBD. (Don’t you love that weaselly construction “up to …”? Strictly speaking it could mean just one protester.)

    Another news source this afternoon said “100,000”. Certainly there were huge crowds, bigger and more demographically varied than I’ve seen in 30 years in any Australian city, dispersing by the time I got to central Melbourne around 11.30 AM.

    Anyone got more specific figures?

  6. Police estimate was 150,000 in Melbourne. They are always a bit conservative on numbers. Remember, Victoria and W.A have had the full force of proposed laws for a while.

    Dewey-Horton may already have a brief to explain to ‘battlers’, why their pay is so low.This time, as a non-goverment advertiser. Suspect, that they and Singo will be just as creative before the next election.

    Sadly, propaganda rules!

  7. Stoptherubbish said:

    “Your riff on the ‘paranoid style’ in Australian politics is a new one on me, and I have never heard it ascribed to Australian politics before”

    As a RWDB I have the interesting experience of family dinners with ALP Politicians and staffers and Union employees. (You can pick your friends but you can’t pick your family!) I can assure you that the paranoid conspiracists are alive and well positioned in the ALP at State and Federal level and the Union movement.

    I believe that what I hear them talking about – their conspiracy theories, their almost total disconnect from the views of the majority of voters, let alone other factions, their inability to understand why the majority of voters support a Federal Coalition government, their vilification of the owners of capital and the managerial classes (excluding bureaucrats) has driven me even further to the right than I used to be.

    Strangely enough, seeing what they are like also means that I haven’t joined the Liberal Party because I see no need to get over-hyped about fighting them. The sclerotic Branch structure, the Union domination of the ALP, and the factional system, and the pre-selection preference for Party Hacks rather than people with a broader life experience means I think they are little threat. I don’t give a stuff about the State government because they don’t have power over the really important issues. At the Federal level the Coalition just has to avoid losing but doing anything too stupid.

  8. Suspect the coalition is already looking pretty ‘stupid’ on many issues, Razor.

    Preselection for a person like you ,awaits, in the conservative party of your choice. Just wondering, if I said that on the internet, would I be guilty of “sedition”?

    Where do you stand on freedom of speech or should we just get over it?

  9. joe2 – depends what you call stupid. For example, the problems in DIMIA are more than made up for by the fact that the majority of the population supports strong immigration controls. The IR campaign is the same as the GST – the usual suspects declaring the end of the world as we know it, and the Government having to sell a reasonable policy change that will ultimatley benefit all Australians.

    I can’t see your link between preselection and sedition. While my sense of self worth means that I like to think that I would have a good chance in a preselection process, my common sense tells me that being an insider in the political party helps your chances. I’m not one to suffer fools gladly and would not cope with the idiots complaing to the electoral office about crap that doesn’t matter, isn’t my responsibility etc etc etc. And lastly, I prefer to tell things how they really are without spin. If I make a commitment I like to keep it. In politics if you make apromise and then can’t keep, rarely is the true reason given (the factional deals, personality clashes etc that casue policy/funding changes). That would eat my guts out not being able to lay the truth out. Geoff Gallop is a master at it!!

    As for freedom of speech, I recognise that with freedom comes responsibility. For example, I think it is irresponsible of the media to publish the fact that bomb making material can be easily purchased from the local shops and go find the info on the net. I’m no lawyer, but I think the current slander and defamation laws are generally OK. I’m not across the argument about making then the same across the States and Federally, but there appears merit to that idea. I do believe that you shouldn’t be allowed to be a liar. As such, people who say things like “Howard lied” or “Bush lied” should be able to produce evidence. I am strongly against vilification laws such as the Victorian ones. If people want to have a go at religions or philosphies, then those religions and philosophies should be strong enough to argue their own case.

    I also believe that the debate over the proposed sedition laws is over-hyped. Sedition is all about inciting revolution against the government. Disagreeing with the Government isn’t sedition. People who voice support for the terrorists in Iraq like John Pilger are not necessarily being seditious, but shouldn’t be allowed into Australia ever again because he supported the killing of Australian Soldiers.

  10. “As for freedom of speech, I recognise that with freedom comes responsibility. For example, I think it is irresponsible of the media to publish the fact that bomb making material can be easily purchased from the local shops and go find the info on the net.”

    Hell, anyone who reads sf has probably known that since they read Farnham’s Freehold at the age of twelve.

  11. Ian – note that while I don’t think it is responsible, I also don’t think we should regulate against it.

  12. joe2 – If you suspect the Coalition is already looking stupid then please explain why they aren’t getting caned in the polls?

    Not that the “but” in my original post in last sentence should have been a “by not”.

  13. joe2 – you are a bit slow off the mark – they are now getting beaten in the polls.

    That is whty we shoudl have four year terms – so that governments can bring in reforms, allow them to take effect and then be decided upon.

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