Weekend Reflections

It’s time once again for weekend reflections, which makes space for longer than usual comments on any topic. As always, civilised discussion and no coarse language.

36 thoughts on “Weekend Reflections

  1. nanks,
    have a look at operation gladio and the strategy of tension,
    have a look at the moscow apartment bombings,
    have a look into the two SAS men caught in basra in arabic clothing in a beaten up car full of explosives,
    have a look at the footage from the canadian Stop SPP protests of police provocateurs

    the people who do these things are trained to kill people and not care, they exist whether it unsettles your comfortable worldview or not

  2. nanks,

    If you are truly so uninterested in knowing whether or not Bush Administration would have “kill(ed) it’s own people in such a manner,” then wouldn’t you at least concede that those who lost loved ones on 11 September 2001 such as Ellen Mariani or the Jersey Girls deserve to know the truth?

  3. Gosh it’s the inquisition – lol
    There is no possiblity that I or anyone else with a similar distance from the events can figure out what really happened. You are kidding youself if you think you can ‘know’. And in my case knowing would make no difference to my life or views on govt at all.
    As to the families – they are in the same terrible position of anyone else who has lost a loved one through tragic circumstances.

  4. nanks wrote, “You are kidding youself if you think you can ‘know’.”

    To the contrary, if you were to take the 10 minutes it requires to view the video “9/11 Science vs. Conspiracy Theories Part 1 of 2” referred to above, I think that you would see that it is possible to ‘know’, as examples, the following facts:

    * That the North Tower didn’t get anywhere near hot enough for there to have been the structural damage that would have been necessary to initiate the collapse.

    * a stream of molten steel dripped from the South tower, which could not have been the molten alumunium from an engine from Flight 175 as claimed by NIST.

    * Edna Cintron stood at the impact point on the North Tower (as referred to above) where in Ikonoklast’s words “the intensity of the blast and fire (was) buckl(ing) the steel columns of the impact floor at least and perhaps some floors above and below.”

    Are you seriously trying to suggest that those facts have not been conclusively established by that video?

    nanks wrote, “Gosh it’s the inquisition – lol”

    No, no-one can make you answer the perfectly simple and straightforward questions I put to you in the post before or in this post. However others are entitled to draw their own conclusions if you choose not to.

  5. daggett – What do you think the presence of Edna Cintron conclusively shows? If you think that it shows the fire can not have been intense enough to be implicated as per the standard explanation of collapse, then what do you think the survival of Shigeko Sasamori, who was within a kilometer of the atomic explosion at Hiroshima, says about the truth of that disaster?
    Flame dynamics in natural environments are complex.
    Furthermore the existence of disputed facts says nothing about conspiracy – just that facts are disputed.

  6. Glad that you’re at least starting to engage with some of the facts, nanks, something very few supporters of the Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory ever do.

    nanks, it is perfectly conceivable that people relatively close to atomic blasts could survive, given that nearly all of the energy of the blast is dissipated very close to the blast.

    Can’t you see that survival someone a whole kilometre from the atomic explosion at Hiroshima (if that’s what you meant to write) is entirely different from someone standing, at most, metres away from raging fires that were claimed to be hot enough to destroy the huge (initially 10 times) redundant strength in the structural steel that was holding up the proportion of the tower above her?

    If there was that much heat in those flames, how was it conceivable for anyone to live on that floor, let alone stand in the way she did seemingly unbothered by heat?

    This is also confirmed, not only by the thermal images referred to in that video, but also by the fact that Battalion Chief Oreo Palmer (although on the South and not the North Tower) who had reached the 78th floor, immediately below where flight 175 had impacted and only 7 minutes before the South Tower,the first to collapse, exploded around him in a fiery inferno, reported in a radio message:

    “Ladder 15, we’ve got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines.”

    ‘Ladder 15’ referred to the fire truck with which he was communicating and ‘two lines’ meant two lines from two separate fire trucks.

    Remember, that he was supposed to be standing on one of the floors on which, according to Ikonoclast, “the intensity of the blast and fire (was) buckl(ing) the steel columns of the impact floor at least and perhaps some floors above and below.”

    Clearly the claim of intense fires raging out of control was a lie invented to conceal the fact that something else must have caused the complete and sudden collapses of both the South and North Towers and, later that day, World Trade Center Tower 7 (which as smiths pointed out was not even struck by an aircraft).

    (For more information on Battalion Chief Oreo Palmer and Fire Marshal Ronald Bucca, whose cool-headed professionalism and fantastic athletic performance on the day should have saved many lives, please read my article “Science Show too quick to close discussion of World Trade Center collapses” and articles linked to from there. )

    nanks wrote, “Furthermore the existence of disputed facts says nothing about conspiracy – just that facts are disputed.”

    Firstly, the facts are conclusive and cannot be disputed. The fires from the remnant aviation alone could not have been hot enough to cause total structural failur of both towers even if we take inot accoutn the damage caused by the impact of the two aircraft.

    Secondly, the way these facts and so many other facts pertinent to full and proper investigations of these engineering disasters is proof of the existence of a conspiracy to cover up the truth about the WTC ‘collapses’ and many other aspects of 9/11.

  7. Apologies, the last paragraph above, should have read:

    “Secondly, the way these facts and so many other facts pertinent to full and proper investigations of these engineering disasters have been suppressed is proof of the existence of a conspiracy to cover up the truth about the WTC ‘collapses’ and many other aspects of 9/11.”

  8. daggett – “nanks, it is perfectly conceivable that people relatively close to atomic blasts could survive, given that nearly all of the energy of the blast is dissipated very close to the blast.”

    a technical note – this is not correct – if it were then nuclear weapons would not be as effective a deterrent. For historical data related to Nagasaki see http://www-sdc.med.nagasaki-u.ac.jp/n50/disaster/Damage-r-big.gif but other sites are readily available. Note that at a distance of 1km roof tiles will melt. Yet some people survived. This is because the dispersion of energy in real world situations is not homogenous and is very difficult to predict or reconstruct by modelling alone.
    This does not mean there was no 9/11 conspiracy – just that the existence of a person near the impact site does not disprove claims about temperature. And of course we have no way of knowing if that footage was itself part of another conspiracy.
    My own view is there was no conspiracy – just opportunistic exploitation.

  9. Perhaps, I didn’t phrase what I wrote about nuclear weapons very well. Clearly they are devastating weapons. Nevertheless, they are not necessarily as devastating as if the equivalent amount of TNT were used, because a disproportionate amount of a nuclear weapon’s energy is used close to the point of detonation.

    I think your point about the random dispersion of energy is likely to be valid when we consider distances in the order of 1 kilometre from the blast, but I would still suggest that any randomness in the dispersal of heat from such intense fires would make no practical difference to someone standing only metres away, especially given that heat sufficient to destroy the strength of connections from the supporting trusses to the outer steel columns against which she was leaning was supposedly being conducted beneath her feet and above her (that is, in NIST’s post-Pancake collapse theory as shown on the video shortly after the phot of Edna Cintron).

    nanks wrote, “the existence of a person near the impact site does not disprove claims about temperature.”

    Well, I think it does.

    However, what about the thermal image photos taken by Carol Ciemiengo?

    What about the fact that Batallion Chief Oreo Palmer reported from the 78th floor 7 minutes before the South Tower collapsed that the fires could have been put out with two lines. How could such an experienced firefighter have failed to have noticed “the intensity of the blast and fire (that) buckled the steel columns of the impact floor at least and perhaps some floors above and below”? Indeed, how could he have not died from the heat, still less not felt it?

    In fact there are mountains more evidence that shoot the NIST and 9/11 Commission reports down in flames on the site of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Why not have a look?

    And there are more mountains of evidence which shoot down in flames just about every other aspect of the Official 9/11 Conspiracy Theory.

    I am glad that you concede that there may have been a conspiracy.

    For my part, having carefully studied the evidence, I am more certain that there was a conspiracy by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice et al than I am that Lindy Chamberlain did not murder baby Azaria.

    I am sure that if you even took even a fraction of the effort that I have taken you would quickly arrive at a similar conclusion.

    BTW, the “opportunistic exploitation” theory was the one I subscribed to until about under two years ago when I first started to think more deeply about 9/11.

  10. The statement concerning Lindy Chamberlain was probably hyperbolic. Like nearly everyone, I am about as certain as it is possible to be that Lindy Chamberlain is innocent of the crime for which she was convicted and I am just about as certain that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice et al are guilty of the crime of 9/11.

    If anyone has another theory which accounts for the facts related to 9/11, I would certainly be interested in knowing about it.

    However, one theory which does not account for all the known facts is the Official US Government Conspiracy Theory.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

w

Connecting to %s