A new sandpit, the place for off-topic rants and lengthy one-on-one debates no-one else can really follow, because they missed the crucial contradiction between comment #347 and comment #186. Seriously, that kind of extended comments-thread debate is part of blogging, and I wouldn’t like to lose it. But, so far, confining it to the sandpit seems to be working pretty well.
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John Quiggin 
@el gordo
el gordo – we already have eco (economic) fascism writing the nonsense in your links.
As a special favor to you, Alice.
“We have become a force of nature … Not long ago, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, drought, forest fires, even earthquakes and volcanic explosions were accepted as “natural disasters or “acts of God.” But now, we have joined God, powerful enough to influence these events.”
David Suzuki September 2010
@el gordo
el gordo – spare me the poster boy of prime time TVs comments. Joined who? There is no God except the one whos name we dont really know. So many gods, too many to recall…all right.
Yeah, we atheists have to stick together. On an entirely different matter, just a few weeks ago I was chatting with my comrades about the resilience of coral reefs after bleaching. Now we have more scientists saying the Amazon is not doomed.
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2010/09/20/amazon-rainforest-resiliency/#more-448
One of the canards that drives climate change denial is that climatologists are eager to exaggerate the risk in order to secure grants and social standing. The reality is that this claim reveals more about the practices of the deniers than the climate scientists. The deniers repeat this over and over despite the fact that their own belief tanks, propaganda shops like the Science and Public Policy Institute, do not disclose the sources of their funding.
Occasionally, however, campaign finance laws force the disclosure of funding. Proposition 23 which would repeal AB 32, the California Global Warming Solutions Act, is headed for a vote in November. Strangely enough, it is people like the Koch brothers (also known as the Kochtopus for their establishment of astroturf groups) that are funding Proposition 23.
When it comes to a corrupt climate change gravy train, it is actually the denier organisations that have their snout in the trough.