Monday Message Board

Another Monday Message Board. Post comments on any topic. Civil discussion and no coarse language please. Side discussions and idees fixes to the sandpits, please.

34 thoughts on “Monday Message Board

  1. It’s much the same as what the fascists were demanding. On very close inspection and comparison it would become clearer what the differences are.

    I like this bit (from page 6):

    There are serious concerns regarding the sustainability of Greek debt. This is due to the easing of policies during the last twelve months, which resulted in the recent deterioration in the domestic macroeconomic and financial environment. The Euro Summit recalls that the euro area Member States have, throughout the last few years, adopted a remarkable set of measures supporting Greece’s debt sustainability, which have smoothed Greece’s debt servicing path and reduced costs significantly.

    In other words, “Greece was going just fine until they lightened up on austerity, and now all the country’s problems are down to not enough austerity”.

    I’d have to dig up my copy of “Shock Doctrine” to find the exact page reference, but that has always been the neo-liberal/fascist argument from day one: “Austerity/neo-liberalism/fascism isn’t the problem, you just didn’t do it right, it’s you’re fault and now you must pay the consequences”.

  2. @Megan

    That’s it then. Greece will be destroyed and sold off lock, stock and barrel. I hope the rest of the PIIGS are worried and the Baltics too. They ought to be. They are next.

    I predict ongoing catastrophic economic collapse of Europe over the next couple of decades. They are finished. I hope we aren’t next. I suspect our turn will come.

    I am puzzled, I am not quite sure how destroying countries improves the world’s economy. It is clear that the major western powers (USA, UK, Germany and France) believe that destroying countries is the way forward for them. Let’s see, who has been destroyed so far? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Tunisia and now Greece. Currently, Yemen is being destroyed, oh yes and Ukraine. Gaza Strip of course. Who else have I missed naming?

  3. It’s worse than that (or ‘as bad as that’):

    Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’ statement following the conclusion of the Eurozone Summit

    July 13, 2015 |

    We have been fighting hard for six months now, and we fought until the end to achieve the best possible outcome, an agreement that will enable the country to get back on its feet, and for the Greek people to be able to continue to fight.

    We faced tough decisions, tough dilemmas. We assumed responsibility for the decision in order to prevent the most extreme objectives from being implemented—those pushed for by the most extreme conservative forces in the European Union.

    The agreement calls for tough measures. However, we prevented the transfer of public property abroad, we prevented the financial asphyxiation and the collapse of the financial system—this was planned to the last detail – having recently been designed to perfection, and in the process of being implemented.

    Finally, in this tough battle, we managed to gain the restructuring of the debt and a financing process for the medium-term.

    We were aware that it would not be an easy task, but we have created a very important legacy. An important legacy, and a much-needed change throughout Europe. Greece will continue to fight, and we will continue to fight, so that we can return to growth, regain our lost national sovereignty. We earned our popular sovereignty. We sent a message of democracy, a message of dignity throughout Europe and the world. This is the most important legacy.

    Finally, I would like to thank all of my colleagues–ministers, colleagues and associates who gave, along with me, a very tough fight. A fight, which at the end of the day, will be vindicated.

    Today’s decision will maintain Greece’s financial stability and provide recovery potential. However, as we knew beforehand, the agreement will be difficult to implement. The measures include those that Parliament has voted on. Measures that will inevitably create recessionary trends. However, I am hopeful that the growth package of 35 billion euro that we achieved, debt restructuring, as well as securing funding for the next three years will create market confidence, so that investors realize that fears of a Grexit are a thing of the past—thereby fueling investment, which will offset any recessionary trends.

    I believe that a large majority of the Greek people will support the effort to return to growth; they acknowledge that we fought for a just cause, we fought until the end, we have been negotiating through the night, and no matter what the burdens will be, they will be allocated – we guarantee this – with social justice. And it will not be the case that those who have shouldered the burden during the last years will be stuck footing the bill once more. This time, those who avoided paying—many of whom were protected by the previous governments–will pay now, they, too, will shoulder the burden.

    Finally, I want to make this commitment: Now, we need to fight just as hard as we fought to achieve the best outcome abroad-in Europe, to rid vested interests in the country. Greece needs radical reforms in favor of social forces, and against the oligarchy that have led to the country’s current state. And this commitment to this new effort begins tomorrow.

    source: Prime Ministry Greece

    Weasel-Word-Central must have drafted that. It’s meaningless and an insult to the millions of starving Greeks who believed that this faux ‘Lefty’ would stand up for them.

    New boss same as old boss. Just like our beloved ALP.

  4. PS: Happy Bastille Day, everyone!

    There are resisters and there enablers.

    In the end the enablers will be held to account.

  5. @Megan

    The actual Greek fascists (indeed, Nazis) Golden Dawn are now the only party in the Greek parliament that are against austerity.

  6. Michael Ware, a panellist on last night’s Q&A, made the point that we still don’t know how the extremist/terrorist mind works and Abbotts reaction (and Turnbull et al) to the Zaky Mallah episode only serves to reinforce that ignorance.

    Ware argued that the Zaky Mallahs of the world should be given as much exposure as possible so that there arguments can be fleshed out and the mystique associated with martyrs dissipated.

  7. @Uncle Milton

    “The actual Greek fascists (indeed, Nazis) Golden Dawn are now the only party in the Greek parliament that are against austerity.” – Uncle Milton.

    The key word in your sentence is PARTY. The Golden Dawn are the only PARTY against austerity (according to you). I notice you don’t mention the people. I guess the people are all for austerity and having their country destroyed.

    When we put all the pieces together, we get a disturbing picture of finance capitalism controlling the economoy. When the banks lost money in the GFC they got the bailouts and the people took the haircut. When Cyprus’s banks failed the EU banks got a bailout via a bail-in where the depositors, the people, where given a haircut. When Greece is in trouble, the people get the haircut (austerity) and the banks get the bailout. Have no doubt, about 95% of “Greece’s bailout” actually goes straight back the EU banks.

    Whatever happened to the big bank lenders taking risk? Now they always get the bailout. The people get to starve. Ah late-stage capitalism, you gotta love it if you are a banker right? All profit, no risk and the government is there to help you.

    However, the long term results of this will be nothing short of disastrous. In very short order, there will be failed states all over the place. Greece is the latest to join this club. Who’s next? maybe Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Baltic states, Finland, Slovakia, Slovenia… in any order.

  8. While musing on the expected attacks on the CEFC (Clean Energy Finance Corporation) by the Egregious PM Tony Abbott (NB: I coine this phrase), I found my link-mind wandering and ended up at the Solar Council’s website; to be more specific, the page which displays the bullying tones of the Minister for Unvironment, Greg “Cockney” Hunt, and the polite if blunt response from John Grimes. While it is a fun exercise to digest both, I extract this line from Greg’s missive:

    I’m sure you would agree that it is absolutely imperative that all panels installed must be of high quality and pose absolutely no threat to safety.
    I consider safety to be a matter of paramount importance and I am seeking your assurance of a review of this matter.
    I ask for an urgent and immediate investigation and preliminary response on safety matters by the end of this week, including outlining what steps you propose to take to rectify the matter.
    Pending this, I will consider any further action that may need to be taken by the government to ensure safety and that the scheme is not being open to abuse.

    The response from John Grimes, in part:

    As you are no doubt also aware, while the Clean Energy Council (CEC), various State agencies and the Australian Government all have varying legal obligations for solar panel and systems safety and quality, the Australian Solar Council does not have any formal regulatory obligations.

    The minister doesn’t even know to whom he should address such matters, and in any case John Grimes’ letter in full is a complete answer. There is little doubt that the campaign against solar energy, and household solar energy, started long ago, this being just one attempt at wounding the industry.

    The government tactic is smear if nothing better comes to mind…and apparently, nothing did.

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