Another Monday Message Board. Post comments on any topic. Civil discussion and no coarse language please. Side discussions and idees fixes to the sandpits, please. If you would like to receive my (hopefully) regular email news, please sign up using the following link
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John Quiggin 
Triggered by “All publicly funded research could soon be free for you, the taxpayer, to read” today. Chuckle. A right royal hidden revelation.♤♤ Even a midas touch! A whale of a post.
Please make knowledge public and rail against private hidden research. JQ said “when knowledge was spread around-so was prosperity”.
Hidden private research is anti commons. I vote for – Plan S… we can make it better as required…
“About Plan S
Plan S is an initiative for Open Access publishing that was launched in September 2018. The plan is supported by cOAlition S, an international consortium of research funders. Plan S requires that, from 2020, scientific publications that result from research funded by public grants must be published in compliant Open Access journals or platforms.”
https://www.coalition-s.org/
***
All publicly funded research could soon be free for you, the taxpayer, to readhttp://theconversation.com/all-publicly-funded-research-could-soon-be-free-for-you-the-taxpayer-to-read-111825
“The implementation of Plan S could also encourage publishers to increase their publishing prices, as they mitigate potential revenue losses in the transition from a subscription-based model.”… ala wealth condensation.
Migrate potential losses – to us again.
” Open access is already a policy of the Australian Research Council (ARC), which requires that:
Any Research Outputs arising from an ARC supported research Project must be made openly accessible within a twelve (12) month period from the date of publication.
“However, the same policy stipulates that “contractual obligations” is an acceptable reason for non-compliance within a 12-month period. In effect, this still allows publication contracts to effectively keep research permanently behind paywalls.””
*** end the conversation article.
”The true question of the Industrial Revolution is not why it took place at all but why it was sustained beyond, say, 1820,” Professor Mokyr writes.” … “The reason, he argues, lies in what he calls the Industrial Enlightenment, a series of cultural changes that connected practical and theoretical knowledge and made both more widely accessible.”
##Via… JQ. When-knowledge-was-spread-around-so-was-prosperity/
***
‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit of money says to the chemists churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden seed funding manna. We will also give him (!her!) a white stone [see ‘a’ below] with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it, for tax havens are great”. Via revelations.
♤♤ Smart scientists and financialisation undermining and finacialising science. >600 out of ” over 54,000 members and an international publishing and knowledge business” That is only approx. 11% of royal society of chemists. The other 89% I assume are actually generating knowledge for “international publishing and knowledge business”.
Here is the royal society of chemists 9%’ers… Imho these 600 sound like a stuck pig.
“Reaction of Researchers to Plan S
“‘An Open Letter in response to Plan S, signed by >600 researchers from all ranks, ranging from masters students & ECRs to full professors, department heads, institute directors, and Nobel laureates, from both cOAlition S countries and beyond.”
“”We support open access (OA) and Plan S is probably written with good intentions. However, Plan S
1, as currently presented by the EU (and several national funding agencies) goes too far, is unfair for the scientists involved and is too risky for science in general. Plan S has far reaching consequences, takes insufficient care of the desires and wishes of the individual scientists [ kt2: read 9% ] and creates a range of unworkable and undesirable situations:
(1) The complete ban on hybrid (society) journals of high quality is a big problem, especially for chemistry. Apart from the fact that we won’t be allowed to publish in these journals anymore, the direct effect of Plan S and the way in which some national funding agencies and academic/research institutions seem to want to manage costs may eventually even lead to a situation where we won’t even be able to legally read the most important (society) journals of for example the ACS, RSC and ChemPubSoc anymore. Note that in their announcement of Plan S, the Dutch funding organisation NWO (for example) wrote that they expect to cover the high article processing charges (APCs) associated with the desired Gold OA publishing model from money freed by disappearing or stopped subscriptions to existing journals
2. As such, Plan S may (eventually) forbid scientists access to (and publishing in) >85% of the existing and highly valued (society) journals! So effectively Plan S would block access to exactly those journals that work with a valuable and rigorous peer review system of high quality. As a second note on this aspect: In the Netherlands, already for more than 6 months, researchers don’t have legal access to most
3. Fully banning even more society journals is completely unacceptable and unworkable”…
https://zenodo.org/record/1484544
***
About zendo…
“Passionate about Open Science!
Built and developed by researchers, to ensure that everyone can join in Open Science.
“The OpenAIRE project, in the vanguard of the open access and open data movements in Europe was commissioned by the EC to support their nascent Open Data policy by providing a catch-all repository for EC funded research. CERN, an OpenAIRE partner and pioneer in open source, open access and open data, provided this capability and Zenodo was launched in May 2013.”
“In support of its research programme CERN has developed tools for Big Data management and extended Digital Library capabilities for Open Data. Through Zenodo these Big Science tools could be effectively shared with the long-tail of research.””
***
Now down the rabbit hole where the foxes are now in residence. This is just one lair of many.
The Royal Society of Chemistry has 1 board member or advisor, Eric Whale.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/the-royal-society-of-chemistry#section-board-members-and-advisors
Eric Whale
(actual coating IP seems worthwhile)
From Scotland, CelluComp, a sustainable materials company, announced the close of a £2.4 Million funding round. Sofinnova Partners’ Green Seed Fund led the financing, and was joined by Scottish Enterprise through its investment arm, the Scottish Investment Bank, Claridge and a syndicate of angel investors.”
https://coatings.specialchem.com/editorial/bayer-materialscience-raises-polyether-polyol-production-cellucomp-closes-financing-round-ncsu-w-21847
Sofinnova…
‘Sur l’année 2006 elle réalise un chiffre d’affaires de 0,00 EU.- “In the year 2006 it achieves a turnover of 0,00 EU.”
Wow! Zero.
https://www.societe.com/societe/societe-civile-montclair-413201443.html
Grandma says: Sofinnova – Potential Conflicts, Has Unnamed Control Persons
“Sofinnova Partners names Papiernik chairman
…”we significantly grew our assets under management, which today total more than 1.6 billion euros.” … “Antoine has an MBA from the Wharton School of Business, University of Pennsylvania. In 2012 and 2011, he was selected by Forbes for its “Midas List” of the world’s top 100 venture capital investors.”
https://www.pehub.com/2017/03/sofinnova-partners-names/
[a] “A white stone was used to gain admission to certain events in Roman times. That would imply that those who overcome will be granted admission to the Kingdom [ of hidden knowledge & wealth ].”
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/977/what-is-the-hidden-manna-and-the-white-stone
JQ – IP will effect your future social world and is preyed on and predicated on above. I am terming “knowledge condensation”. Copyright claimed by kt2 under all commons open publishing. Ala…
“Wealth condensation in a simple model of economy
“An interesting outcome is that the distribution of wealth tends to be very broadly distributed when exchanges are limited, either in amplitude or topologically. Favouring exchanges (and, less surprisingly, increasing taxes) seems to be an efficient way to reduce inequalities. ”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378437100002053
The royal soc of chemists and funders must be gobsmacked such information is available – to you. And potentially dangerous in nefarious hands I’ll admit. See site and choose…
My favourite molecule;
ATP synthase (Molecule of the Month for November 1997)Chemistry Nobel Prize 1997
“In Boyer’s model, the key to this process is a tiny shaft running through the middle of a barrel-like portion of the enzyme. A flow of protons through the membrane makes the shaft spin, which sucks in raw materials and blows out the fresh ATP. The model has been instrumental in overturning simplistic “lock-and-key” explanations of how enzymes work, in which chemicals simply drop into inflexible enzyme grooves, react and then depart.
a visual and interactive website showcasing the beautiful world of chemistry”
“click on the picture of ATP synthase above to interact
with the 3D model of the
ATP synthase structure a visual and interactive website showcasing the beautiful world of chemistry”
http://www.3dchem.com/ATPsynthase.asp
Enjoy.
Given that the reserve bank is considering lowering interest rates again, even at these historic low rates of 1.5%, I believe that it would be worthwhile to consider other options for inflation targeting and economic stimulation.
If we have another large scale crisis, which looks very possible due to the current housing crash situation, rates may not be able to move low enough or negative interest rates and QE may need to be considered to increase inflation levels and stimulate the economy.
But what about giving the reserve bank another method to control inflation via a monthly citizens’ dividend? Lowering interest rates increases inflation, but it also causes many side effects like housing bubbles, credit misallocation, and largely benefits to the wealthy (who borrow at low rates to buy houses, negatively geared of course, shares, and other investments) and negatively impacts those who keep a large proportion of their money in low risk instruments (term deposits, bonds, etc).
I believe the economic system would work better if we gave the reserve bank an additional method for controlling inflation. This would be a monthly citizens dividend, which would pay out a certain amount decided by the reserve bank and decided monthly along with the interest rate decision. This is very much similar to the stimulus package during the GFC, but much more generalized and granular.
Given current technology and the MyGov system, this would likely be very easy to implement and would provide the RBA with another lever of control, without having to resort to large distortionary changes in interest rates when they are reaching their limits of control already.
The RBA has already talked about the problems of wanting higher inflation and wage growth, but not wanting to reinflate the housing bubble. So what we need is a method of achieving this stimulation, but not one that does inflate credit bubbles. This is what I believe this system would achieve.
If this post generates any interest, we could discuss further where these funds would come from. Most likely this would come just from money generation (printing money), just as the loaned money from low interest rates comes from nothing. But it could also be added to from government budgets, selling bonds, etc depending on the needs of the situation and the level of control that the government would like.
I don’t think Magic Maggie meant to post that
“Lowering interest increases inflation…”
I expect Magic Maggie meant to post that
“Lowering interest rates can increase asset inflation…”
The dichotomy of goods inflation AND asset inflation confuse many commentators. when you take your eyes off one it tends to misbehave. But trying to control both with one policy instrument often fails to please government economic managers. When the further complication of a floating exchange is added to the macroeconomic mix, the difficulty of relying on one policy instrument becomes apparent.
When the Reserve Bank has to manage asset inflation, combat stalled economic growth AND keep Australia international competitive this is asking a lot of one instrument.
So any suggestions for more policy options is always welcome. Well done Magic Maggie for coming up with a new suggestion.
I would advise against getting the funds from “printing money”. Mainly because after a decade of quantitative easing in the USA and Europe that option has been done too much. As we are witnessing in the Us winding back quantitative easing can be very tricky. But using budgetary financing is certainly one possibility. Then this can be funded by some sort of levy on the super normal profits of banks. But all of that is the LEGAL PROBLEM and outside the scope of economic advisors.
One suggestion in today’s Financial Review is for productivity to be stimulated by microeconomic reform. This could help in the long run. Of course increasing the money supply has been a short term to medium term option used in the past. These options need discussion at all levels of society.
I would agree with the proposition that the RBA needs another instrument to help regulate economic output in manner that doesn’t simply inflate the value of existing assets but promotes growth in real assets. I would also prefer that governments weren’t responsible for allocation of infrastructure investment given the obvious pork-barrelling and misallocation that emerges. Therefore, one idea would be for the RBA to control an infrastructure fund and control the timing of allocating funds to infrastructure projects that have been prioritised by Infrastructure Australia. Governments would still control the quantity of funds injected into the infrastructure fund. This would allow the RBA to have some influence over both inflation and employment.
So, how about that convicted pedophile George Pell?
How many years should he get?
It will be interesting to hear the opinion of his friend and admirer, the former Prime Minister, Tony Abbott.
only after the appeal
Gregory J McKenzie says: “getting the funds from “printing money”. Mainly because after a decade of quantitative easing in the USA and Europe that option has been done too much”.
Didn’t QE end up via bond holders back in corporate pockets?
Gregory, if QE or similar was targeted at say sub $20k income, welfare etc would the printing of money not then be fed directly and almost entirely with that cash as a positive feedback?
***
And DoJ attorney, privately …
“New Paper on Tax Enforcement and Corporate Malfeasance
By: Leandra Lederman
I just finished drafting a paper that got me reading a lot about corporate fraud. I find fraud fascinating, so this was a bit of a treat! The new paper is Information Matters in Tax Enforcement, and it’s co-authored with my former student Joe Dugan (JD ’15), who is an attorney at DOJ (but did not write in his official capacity). We recently posted the article on SSRN (here), and will soon be looking for a home for it.”
“Information Matters in Tax Enforcement
… “and firms are not inherently compliant. In fact, where individuals report on firms, firms’ compliance increases, which supports the intuitive notion that third-party reporting increases tax compliance and that information accordingly matters in tax enforcement.”
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3325598
Anon 11:20AM, not just Abbott.
The duopoly, both arms, front and back benches, current and former, is stuffed with rc agents with no doubt many a cloaked smom amongst them. Full vatican diplomatic relations? Done. Concordat soon?
Will parliament revisit Turnbull’s National Redress Scheme for people who have experienced institutional child sexual abuse, and all associated legislation, particularly the arbitrarily determined inadequate cap delivered to religionist interests by the duopoly?
“Where this will lead, as Christianity enters its third millennium, remains to be seen. But there are signs of Christianity seeing itself, and being seen by others, as a counterculture operating within what some have called a post-Christian world.” – Rudd, October 2006, themonthly.com.au/monthly-essays-kevin-rudd-faith-politics–300
smom
http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=47398
How faith-based social services do an end-run around human rights
concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=47275
Enforcing the Vatican’s redemptive suffering on the dying
concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?kb_id=38066
Faith-based gambling in Australia
concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=40036&kb_header_id=47275&order=kb_rank ASC&kb_id=38184
Chaplains in Australian state schools
concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=40036&kb_header_id=47275&order=kb_rank ASC&kb_id=38191
Cut all Australian commonwealth government handouts to religions, and fully tax the lot of them. End all government relations with foreign religious power, inclusive of ER.
“only after the appeal”
Any appeal will be based on (alleged) errors of law by the judge. The findings of facts by the jury are not appellable.
Yes but that doesn’t negate what I said
@nottrampis
Actually, it does. There’s no reason for anybody to withhold statements or opinions now. There is no longer a jury or witnesses who can be swayed by public commentary. The matter is no longer sub judice.
It’s also a bit of a blow to Robert Richter. This is a man with a reputation, justifiably acquired, of being able to get anyone off no matter how damning the evidence appears to be. He reckoned the evidence against Pell was very weak, full of inconsistencies and anomalies, and still the jury convicted.
That was hubris; a very good prosecutor blew holes in Richter’s counter arguments.
When Pell enters protective custody will his supporters, many of whom appear to be from the Right side of politics, visit him?
When Pell dies will he go to hell or languish in purgatory?
And credit to the ALP, for calling for RCs into the banks, child sex abuse, aboriginal deaths in custody and the MDB – all of benefit to society.
I am actually staggered at the verdict. It occurred directly after mass when a lot of people were around.
such brazen behaviour usually means a lot more victims.
given what he had to work with Richter has done a poor job.
rog assuming he is guilty and no repentance he would go to hell.
Purgatory has no biblical support
It’s rather pocket change than any full credit that’s due to the ALP. RCs…All of which have fallen short and/or the subsequent poor legislation arising and/or maladministration of same… all of which has seen the ALP reliably complicit.
“assuming he is guilty and no repentance he would go to hell.”
Pell doesn’t seem to be the repenting type. Which could be a problem for him at sentencing time. Judges like to see some contrition.
“Purgatory has no biblical support”
Not according to Protestant theology, in any case.
“will his supporters, many of whom appear to be from the Right side of politics, visit him?”
Andrew Bolt says Pell has been falsely convicted. I don’t know why he says this. It’s behind a paywall. Conspiracy between warmists and Melbourne’s Somalis, perhaps? In any case, it takes a certain something to go into bat for a pedophile, whose particular acts against boys need not be detailed here, but you can read about them with great specificity in the media
“such brazen behaviour usually means a lot more victims.”
Seems like you don’t keep up with the news, this issue has been bubbling along for decades. In particular I’m thinking of Chrissie Foster, who has lost her family to the abuse by Christian figures of authority.
Normally the victims don’t have access to the best legal advocates that money can buy.
These churchy bible bashing people, like Pell, enjoy a good life – best steak Chianti whatever all paid by loyal parishioners. The sense of betrayal emanating from Pells’s conviction must be enormous.
rog I am talking about Pell himself.
Pedophiles have a history, a long history. Not much here.
Frank Brennan’s take was interesting
Re Pell. Imagine if he, and The Church, had taken perceptions – as in I perceive I may be damaging the Brand, – as that is what The Chirch is – and quietly overcome his ego and renounced his power. How much suffering money and life would have been saved. Probably not much as the power and ego of bishops knows no bound as heaven awaits.
I know a local president(!) of vinnies who is attending a Conference of A Bishop. Who has voted with and for Pell since – ’98? The wonderful charity changes oresided over now by – gord I can hardly write his name – gary johns,
took away vinnies money and handed it to the bishops to control. As in trikled up by our govt. No power now locally to distribute funds nor comment. Silence of the flock writ large. Vinnies is now a financialised arm of The Church and arm of free labour for government to the poorest of relief via handing out vouchers to pay for electricity etc.
Canon law rights says lay persons may attend the Conference of the bishop each year. A committee will to provide info to the Bishop and will be attending a 3 day Conference.
The layity imho are just as culpable. If anyone reading this is in The Church excersize you power from the grassrots and turf them out or just become a church yourselves – three people standing together.
If you think you are going to heaven, the eye of the needle treats culpablity as a higher level requirement than worldly stuff. Money can be given away on a deathbed. Sins of omission not so much.
And didn’t some encyclical admit there is no hell. I may be wrong.
A new, and foreseen, externality… PTSD. Via one of the richest dudes on the planet. Who has already washed his hands via outsourcing and expert legal advice. Sunlight is needed.
“one the Internet’s most dystopian jobs”
” now has about 15,000 content reviewers, almost all of whom work not for ******** itself but for staffing firms like Accenture and Cognizant.”
“But new behaviors have already emerged to fool the computers. “There’s no way you could train a robot to understand those complexities,” he said.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-25/facebook-grappling-with-employee-anger-over-moderator-conditions
Warning – I’m serious. Here are the real stories. Don’t read unless you have support. But I will sign a petition in support of compensation and law changes to prevent such primary, secondary, vicarious and retraumatisation bleeding into society.
“Content warning: This story contains discussion of serious mental health issues and racism.”
https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona
This seemsnalmost quaint now…
Gee. I logged on to post about an advert outside my woolies – seriously – for novated leases. Financialisation and double dutch irish sandwiches on a sandy beach in the caymans.
This mob of one;
https://www.maxxia.com.au/novated-lease
Back by allianz and
https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/how-eml-payments-found-its-strategy-and-took-ego-out-of-dealmaking.html
… who has used betting agencies pool of addicts as a “disruption”. Oh, did I mention Bain &Co?
If The Church and government -and us – didn’t do what it does, maybe rentiers would be a thing of the past.
I hope that the deep hatreds felt in the community for George Pell have not impacted on his conviction. I hope the final court decision was a sound one.
There is now appearing a certain, understandable, hysteria around the issue of pedophilia. The issue has come out of the dark and is now being addressed much more openly. This is to the good. Yet, one would wish that people would eschew hysteria, while retaining and channeling properly, strong emotions about the issue. Could public hysteria about pedophilia have resulted in a wrongful conviction for Pell? It’s faintly possible, I suppose. Certainly, some public hysteria, as seen on the news reports, seems to be getting a little out of control. That’s not a good sign.
@harryclarke
That cuts both ways. There are people who are convinced Pell didn’t do it because they like that he is a climate change denier or other aspect of his politics.
We can speculate until the cows come home on whether extrinsic factors influenced the jury. Only they know and they aren’t saying.
We do know that the judge instructed them not to take extrinsic factors into account.
Pell’s barrister asserted it was “impossible” he committed the crime because of the clothes he was wearing.
Why then was the defence unable to demonstrate this in the court room?
https://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article/truth-and-justice-after-the-pell-verdict
The comment from Michael Leahy is worth reading.
Now that the suppression order has been lifted Pells crimes are on display for all to see.
http://www.medianet.com.au/releases/release-details.aspx/?id=912017
The global economy is on a tipping point. With Russia desperate for foreign currency we may see a collapse in the world oil benchmarks. In the past Saudi Arabia would stabilize the oil prices. But that country has serious macroeconomic problems. Brexit is coming next month! This will damage the economic stability of all of Europe. the Netherlands will suffer the biggest economic shock as their main port in Rotterdam loses its British business. But Germany will also get a substantial economic shock. In the Pacific region there are still no guarantees of a successful negotiated outcome between the USA and China over trade volumes. The Argentine economy is on the brink of another currency collapse. Brazil is struggling with labour market problems. The Japanese economy remains stagnated. With so many big economies suffering destabilizing incidents, the global economic growth outlook is bleak.
This decision by the Jury feels me with the same feeling as after the OJ Simpson case. What were they thinking
nottrampis, why was Pell unable to swear on the bible and tell the truth?
The witch hunt directed at the unpopular Pell – the worst I can recall – before the trial even commenced makes it difficult to have a trial outcome that is credible. People will always suspect that the preceding witch hunt was responsible for the trial outcome not the evidence. The evidence I read did not seem strong but I don’t have legal training.
It is essential that on social media (and in the ABC and in claims by the police) that people retain the “presumption of innocence” and not launch into bitter attacks based, at least partly, on their hatreds, ignorance and bigotry. These issues should be left to the justice system.
This was definitely not the case here and the denunciations of Pell that occurred repeatedly undermine respect for the justice system. The Pell issue won’t end whatever the results of his appeal.
Nick,
That’s an interesting point. As a piece of courtroom drama, it would be an enormously powerful statement to have a known Archbishop / Cardinal swearing on the Bible. I would be singularly unimpressed, as I am a militant atheist, but many would be impressed.
Counter to this would be the legal advice from his Barrister to not go on the stand. However, one would think that genuine innocence plus genuine faith would lead a person, especially a man of the cloth, to disregard such advice and trust in God rather than the Barrister.
Even a wrongful legal conviction would be seen by a person of genuine religious conviction as a trial sent by God. One could think that Pell failed to protest enough (in the sense of “protest” as a protestation of faith).
Nick,
It is my understanding it is very unusual in these circumstances for the defendant to take the stand.
I did hear yesterday a person who job is in law and who knows both Pell and his barrister saying Pell would have wanted desperately to testify and his barrister for reasons stated early saying no.
“This decision by the Jury feels me with the same feeling as after the OJ Simpson case. What were they thinking[[?]”
Only they know for sure what they were thinking, but a reasonable guess of what they were thinking was that the evidence proved that Pell did it. Hence, their verdict.
Frank Brennan says some of the evidence was weak and because he observed the trial he seems to be claiming some sort of authority. But he wasn’t in the jury room. He doesn’t know how much weight the jury put on each piece of evidence.
I’ve not served on a jury but I suspect prior prejudices are harder to sustain under such circumstances than many people imagine. The quality of the presentation – by prosecution and defence counsel – has more real bearing on the outcome. And the advice from the judge. It looks like Pell got the best legal defence someone else’s money can provide – not the hit and miss of an overworked Legal Aid barrister.
The capacity for ordinary people to take satisfaction from the harsh treatment of others – as long as we believe they are Bad – is bottomless. Courts are a superior, but still imperfect way for determining if they are Bad, better than hearsay and accusation, but inciting and pandering to that urge – which has historically underpinned some of the most horrific violence perpetrated on other human beings – should be avoided as far as possible. The paedophile accusation is one of the most serious and should not be bandied about lightly, for cheap political gain – like is being done with Asylum seeking refugees.
smithy,
In a trial when it is he said he said Brennan;s comments are compelling.
Moreover a person who is a brazen as to sexually assault boys with a door open and choir practising and people going hither and thither would have done it again and again with other boys.
I have served on a jury and the remarks by the Judge would be taken on board very much.I assume that must be part of the reason for the appeal.
To balance my above comments, I am overall undecided on the issue. Some of the evidence against Pell does seem to have been a bit weak. That troubles me. The public witch hunt and hysteria is concerning too.
But in relation to the Catholic Church and perhaps other churches, they clearly have a serious problem. The tax free status of churches and religions should be revoked except for their specific bone fide charitable works.
“The witch hunt directed at the unpopular Pell – the worst I can recall – before the trial even commenced makes it difficult to have a trial outcome that is credible.”
Pell could have a chosen a judge-only trial. If the well of public opinion was so poisoned against him, why did he (or his barrister) opt to try to persuade a jury of his innocence?
“Moreover a person who is a brazen as to sexually assault boys with a door open and choir practising and people going hither and thither would have done it again and again with other boys.”
Hmmm …
“Moreover a person who is a brazen as to sexually assault boys with a door open and choir practising and people going hither and thither would have done it again and again with other boys.”
One of the facts that has emerged again and again in the Me Too era is that powerful men will brazenly engage in sexual impropieties, from harassment to assault, even when the risk of getting caught is high. Harvey Weinstein, Rolf Harris … and many, many others.
Why they should take these risks is matter for the psychologists. What matters for the courts is whether they did it.
You realise you are arguing against the decision
I am arguing against your argument, which was also the argument that Richter put to the jury, that he would have been crazy do it, therefore he didn’t do it.
Paedophiles are opportunists. Pell allegedly encounters two ‘known troublemakers’ hiding in the sacristy swigging the wine. Who’s going to believe them?
Ikonoclast 10:30 am The tax free status of churches and religions should be revoked except for their specific bone fide charitable works.
Not only should religions pay tax, it should be progressive with more being paid the larger the religionist group is, not to mention getting it right for the multinationals. They should pay council rates! They should not be given government contracts. They certainly should not be given the huge handouts they receive from governments. Estimates I’ve seen vary, but religions cost all current Australian taxpayers somewhere between $40billion and $60billion per year in taxes foregone, tax loopholes, gifting, and various concessions, eg., low income health care cards (they don’t miss a trick!).
That’s a huge budget chunk that could go towards medicare extending to dental, a positive good, or education, or submarines, or towards preventing climate destruction.
Royal commission now!
Where does the money come from for Pell’s no doubt expensive legal defence? Where from for the substantial sums religionists combined spend each year on legals? All taxpayers contribute via misgovernment.
My understanding is that a judge-only trial is not an option in Victoria.
The Guardian’s Melissa Davey provides details of jury selection here:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/27/inside-the-pell-trial-we-sat-in-court-for-months-forbidden-from-reporting-a-word
“A new jury needed to be selected for the retrial, which began in November. As with the first trial, journalists watched via videolink from a courtroom on the third floor as 250 would-be jurors crowded into a room on the lower level of the county court.
“The unusually large group was called because there were fears that so many people would have biases towards or against the Catholic church that finding non-prejudiced jurors would be difficult.
“Pell had the right to challenge up to three jurors as their numbers were pulled out of a ballot box and their occupations read out. He challenged none. Nine men and five women were sworn in, among them a church pastor, a mathematician, a chef and a schoolteacher.”
It’s important to remember that, since the victim’s testimony was given in closed court, media reporting about it has relied on its discussion throughout the rest of the case. None of us (or those speculating in the media) are in a position to fully know the evidence that was presented to the jury.
I find it amusing that two contradictory defences of Pell have come to co-exist in this thread: How can someone who’s had many accusations swirl around them in the media for years get a fair trial? If he was brazen enough to do it, why didn’t he attack more boys?
I do not think you are understanding the word brazen.
The other thing disregarded by the Jury is a very peculiar catholic ‘tradition’ of everyone going back after mass and remember this is after one of his first masses he conducted and divesting themselves of their vestments.
not only did this not occur in this instance but in almost every time before and after the others involved are nowhere to be found.
“The other thing disregarded by the Jury …”
How do you know it was disregarded by the jury? Were you in the jury room when they were conducting their deliberations? How do you know that this was even put to the jury?
The judge has jumped down the wicket and hit Richter over the sight screen at the sentencing hearing.
In response to Richter’s plea that Pell’s offending was at the low end of the serious scale, the judge said
‘People don’t go ahead and do what he did without thinking about it,’’
‘‘People make choices. And he continued to make choices over five minutes.’’
‘‘I see this as callous, brazen offending,’’
‘Blatant. He did have in his mind some sense of impunity. How else did he think he would get away with this?’’
‘‘You put to the jury only a madman would commit these offences. The jury rejected that. There are no medical records suggesting he is mad. The only inference I can make is that he thought he could get away with it.’’
The judge is going to throw the book at Pell, Which means he’ll probably get 4 years with a non-parole period of 2 1/2.
Svante says:
FEBRUARY 27, 2019 AT 12:41 PM
Royal commission now!
+infinity!
Smith9 – thanks for batting back baracking as in “She could not make herself heard above the constant barracking.”
And Ikon mentioned hysteria – if hysteria means our mind is blinded to other important issues Ikon you may be correct about this thread.
Gregory J. McKenzie said:
FEBRUARY 27, 2019 AT 6:48 AM
“The global economy is on a tipping point. With Russia desperate” AND televising targets in america
And the free open publishing of research -kt2 comment 1 this thread –
And f***b*** providing a sunami of ptsd and pontious pilot like washing his hands..
And low rates becoming ineffective
And now a mere…
Companies’ $18t debt bubble could spark a devastating global fire sale. .. smh today…
I’d like to suggest from here on in if commenting on 3rd in charge of that church only provide quores and source not banter about banter. We KNOW.
A big fish but nucleat war, sunami proportion mental health, serious financial and intellectual property going on, please get a grip.
A human! With free will. So endeth the sermon.