A new sandpit for long side discussions, idees fixes and so on. Unless directly responding to the OP, all discussions of nuclear power, MMT and conspiracy theories should be directed to sandpits (or, if none is open, message boards).

61 thoughts on “Sandpit

  1. How is that going to seriously lead to change?

    Those owning pets may actually be at an advantage should some short term catastrophe occur. Our first peoples would sometimes break a leg or two of their dogs/dingos to prevent them absconding before they were needed as food. This is one of the harsh realities of survival where meat, as a concentrated form of nutrition, was so important to Humans, still is and will be for evermore.

  2. @Ron E Joggles

    Re: your comment #37

    I see the ALP has decided to burn Billy Gordon.

    The premier has organized for him to be thrown out of the ALP and has called on him to quit parliament. She says he was “dishonest” with her. That point is debatable. In the context of a smear job in News Ltd from an LNP operative about CSA payments and ATO issues, he was asked “is there anything else I need to know”, according to Palasczuk he said “no”.

    Far from a cut and dried “lie”. She asked an ambiguous question in the context of personal financial affairs and is now sacking him for a relatively bland criminal and traffic history all of which is more than 7 years old, and most of which is closer to 20 years old.

    Under the Parliament of Queensland Act 2001, section 64(2), there are issues around prior criminal convictions that disqualify a person from being able to hold office. None of those disqualifying factors come anywhere near Billy Gordon’s situation and therefore he has every right to remain in his seat.

    The ALP’s treatment of this man at the behest of the hateful, racist slime from News Ltd is shameful. They should have stood by him.

    I’d like him to remain as an independent but I’m afraid the ALP machine will put some very heavy force on him to quit. It will serve them right if the by-election delivers government to Springborg.

  3. ZM, I used J Agric Environ Ethics (2008) 21:459–467. It reports global consumption. I guess it’s possible that Australians are catastrophically low fish consumers but I doubt it.

    Salient Green, we’re a long time removed from having to lame our cats and dogs because of food security. Do you have any evidence that Aborigines actually domesticated dingos?

  4. According to Billy Gordon’s statement (and given he is 40 years old), here are the heinous crimes for which he should quit parliament (along with my added comments on age etc.):

    • Breaking entering and stealing in 1987 in Innisfail – when he would have been aged 12.
    • Breaking and entering with intent, attempted breaking and entering and stealing in 1990 in Atherton – aged 15.
    • Breach of probation in 1992 in Atherton – aged 17.
    • Public nuisance in 1996 in Normanton – aged 21.
    • Breach of bail conditions in 1999 (stemming from not attending a court summons from the 1996 incident) – aged 24.

    In addition I have twice had my driver’s licence suspended for unlicensed driving (2004 and 2008).

    Finally, in 2008 I was served with an Apprehended Violence Order as a result of a complaint by my mother – an AVO is a valuable preventative and precautionary tool which, quite rightly, requires no findings of “guilt” on the person the subject of the order, often the circumstances are disputed but the point is to keep two people apart regardless of the facts and it is completely proper that no further conclusions should be drawn from the simple fact that an AVO existed.

  5. @Megan

    The ALP is totally morally corrupt just like the LNP (as you say all the time and I happen to agree) so why care about any ALP politician’s career?

  6. @Ikonoclast

    Fair point. But….

    so why care about any ALP politician’s career?

    I couldn’t care less about any ALP politician’s career. The problem in this case is racism.

    News Ltd is openly, proudly and militantly racist. The ALP (proud inventors of the ‘White Australia Policy’) have a very long history of racism.

    As you correctly note, I hate the ALP/LNP duopoly entirely. But, it is worth noting that one of the very first indigenous politicians elected in Australia was in that seat, Cook (Eric Deeral, in about 1974. He was Country Party).

    I have no definitive proof of racism (of course), but let’s imagine a scenario as follows:

    A good old white boy from a very establishment Labor Queensland family gets some history dredged up by an LNP operative, also a News Ltd stooge, and it gets a run in the News Ltd press – not when they first got hold of it, but when it could be used with the most leverage to enforce or test the News Ltd control over the ALP.

    In that case, I have no doubt that the ALP would talk bravely about supporting people who have had a rough start in life and have made bad mistakes but have then come good after working hard to improve themselves, and how everyone deserves a second chance after they have accepted their punishment for the bad things they have done. They would go further, of course, pointing out that the source of the smear was not only a one-term bitter LNP stooge but also that he was a Murdoch tool. They would question the integrity of such attacks…. and so on. I’m sure you can picture the rest.

    As with the swathe of NSW LNP crooks whose punishment for adverse mentions at ICAC was a brief stint on the cross-bench as “Independents”, compare the usual treatment of dodgy characters from both sides in Qld.

    If we’re seeing a new standard of “zero tolerance” across the board on a bi-partisan basis in Qld I’ll eat every single hat at this year’s Melbourne Cup.

  7. @faustusnotes
    The dingoes came over with one of the waves of human migration – my recollection is that they arrived about 20K years ago, but I may be mistaken. So, yes, they were domesticated (much like the dogs native Americans kept).

  8. @David Irving (no relation)
    There is a claim that dingos originated in China some 10,000 years ago and arrived here via the land bridge leaving behind a smaller relative, New Guinea singing dog. Recently, he dingo has been given its own species status, recognising that it is not descended from dogs or wolves.

    As to their domestic status among Aboriginal people, Watkin Tench wrote in Ch XI of ‘The Expediction to Botany Bay’:

    The only domestic animal they have is the dog, which in their language is called Dingo, and a good deal resembles the fox dog of England. These animals are equally shy of us, and attached to the natives. One of them is now in the possession of the Governor, and tolerably well reconciled to his new master. As the Indians see the dislike of the dogs to us, they are sometimes mischievous enough to set them on single persons whom they chance to meet in the woods. A surly fellow was one day out shooting, when the natives attempted to divert themselves in this manner at his expense. The man bore the teazing and gnawing of the dog at his heels for some time, but apprehending at length, that his patience might embolden them to use still farther liberties, he turned round and shot poor Dingo dead on the spot: the owners of him set off with the utmost expedition.

  9. @Megan
    I agree entirely. The Premier has overreacted to the current hypercritical political atmosphere where both sides of Parliament are constantly seeking evidence of impropriety.

    As Noel Pearson said, they have thrown him under a bus. I’m on the verge of resigning my membership.

    If they don’t approve the Mt Emerald wind farm, that will be the last straw.

  10. @jungney
    The dingo may be distinctive enough to warrant it’s own species, but nevertheless has the same origin as hunter-gatherer companion dogs in eastern Asia and New Guinea, and ultimately dogs generally. Aboriginal informants 50 years ago told my father that their custom was to allow their female dingo to whelp where she chose, usually leaving her behind when they moved camp, knowing she’d be there on their return, and would then eat most of the pups, keeping a couple for the next generation.

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